Harry's Place

The SNP is not all that hot on Jews either, especially those who dare to fight back against their would-be murderers, is it?

Most of us Scots dont want independence from the UK..The blame everything on England brigade which run the SNP are bigots and Alex Salmond is an arrogant small minded idiot..Keep Scotland British

If Mr Gunn had expressed similar views about Muslims as he has about Gays, would the SNP have said that he is entitled to his personal beliefs? As for dear old Peter Tatchell seeking solidarity between minority groups, he has as much chance of the Muslim community accepting Gays as they would accept Jews (another minority group, Peter!)

Well as a gay Jew I have to say Mr Salmon has lost my vote! Not that he was ever planning to stand in Belsize Park ward but even so, if he did…

The SNP needs what it thinks it has identified as bigoted Christian voter groups and bigoted Muslim voter groups. Gay votes do not count for much I suppose because the gay “community” is a bit of a myth and most gay voters, I suspect like other voters, vote on a variety of issues mostly unrelated to their choice of bed partner.

I sometimes find it hard to believe how much interest religious groups, mostly Christian but sometimes others, focus on gay sex, a minor feature at best in the old and new testaments, almost to the exclusion of everything else. For all this, the Catholic and Protestant churches also seem to be knee deep in gay men (and in the case of the Catholics not a few nasty gay paedophiles) plus a few Lesbian Anglicans. What gives?

B

There’s a transcript of the Kenneth Gunn interview in the Selkirk local paper: http://www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/news/Kenneth-Gunns-onair-salvo-.5528973.jp

Good one Brett. So-called gays?

Gordon Bennet, there’s nothing particular about the SNP which makes it “not hot” on Jews. What makes it snuggle up to Islamists like Saeed, who introduces the likes of Mohammed Salwar and Kemal El-Hebawy to Linda Fabiani, is the root issue of anti-Englishness; complete with the parochial, religious conservatism of Gunn and others.

To out loony even himself, Salmond is now promising a fight to defend the haggis.

Barad, what’s your handicap at golf?

“You cannot justify Islamic activity in the light of common decency, and no doubt it is all sinful. Understand human decency properly, realise that even the identity of being “Muslim” is problematic and inhumane, and repent to Peter Tatchell, who is Forgiving, Merciful.”

Any takers?

Oh I see, you’re not only calling him a “poof”, you’re insinuating that he is handicapped.

I don’t play golf-why do you ask? There must be a joke in there somewhere but I am missing it.

B

I don’t think an equivalence between Islamic and Christian homophobia can be established. As Barad points out Christian and Protestant churches have quite a number of gay and lesbian clerics AND members. That is not the case in Islam. Nor do Christians kill homosexuals.

And I might add that Saeed’s Organisaton “Eye of Gays” sounds like a sinister and menacing surveillance group that aims to spy on gay muslims and to ‘warn’ them of their breach of the divinely ordained islamic order.

The SNP is motivated by hatred and Chauvinism, and so it’s not suprising that a deceitful dirtbag like saeed would be attracted to them. Like a little devil he stands hissing on Salmond’s shoulder, encouraging all manner of division, discord and conflict.

The SNP are idiots to strike up alliances with rabid islamists.

Pathetic. They should kick out this twat.

[holds up Sorry Everybody style sign].

Barad, Sammy Davis Jnr was asked the question, and replied: “I’m a black, one-eyed Jew, what other handicap do I need?”.

Are people still going on about the poof remark?

this time an “ex-gay” Muslim group

I strongly suspect they’d be a whole lot happier rather as an ‘ex Muslim gay group’; at least in first world countries. Granted, perhaps less so in Islamic third world countries, given the ‘joys’ of Islamic Sharia jurisprudence.

Political disagreement is one thing, but it really doesn’t say much for the SNP giving a free pass to these savages.

Oh, I see I suppose, if a bit obscure. Would it surprise you to know that I do not consider myself handicapped in any way by race or sexuality?

Pity you apparently can’t see why you are being offensive though. Do you call people “poof” to their face?

B.

I give up. When’s the hyena pack going to fall on me?

You can’t say “poof” unless you’re gay. I have just beaten up* my trainee for using “gay” pejoratively.

(* i.e. thrown a pen at)

Can I beat up anyone who uses the word teuchter?

Golf is the nothing less than the willful misuse of a perfectly good rifle range!

I call dibs on ’sheep shagger’. You have been warned.

Brett. Scotch is the whisky (No “E”). Scottish is the country, and Scots are the people – even when they are of Gaelic descent.

David T. It’s a bit like not using , “Nigger” as a term of endearment unless you are Black, then?

You from Aberdeen, Homercles, you course Highland tink?

*coarse

I call dibs on ’sheep shagger’. You have been warned.

Bagsies “gobshite”.

Good lord no, other side of the country (…but not the bit where Morgoth wants to exile all Christians).

“David T. It’s a bit like not using , “Nigger” as a term of endearment unless you are Black, then?”

Although this is less true than it was. I heard a group of white teens calling each nother ‘my nigga’ the other day in a semi-lighthearted, semi-serious way.

When Braveheart had it’s world premiere at Stirling University (It’s very close to the Wallace monument) the SNP were right outside the theater signing up recruits. I imagine the Nazi’s did the same thing outside cinemas showing The Eternal Jew.

The SNP exploiting prejudice and bigotry for their own political ends comes as no surprise. Anytime you place the word “National” into your party name you automatically assume a position of “us” vs “them”. Right now “them” seems to be the English, Jews and Gays. I’m sure it won’t be long before Alex Salmond starts talking about final solutions.

Anybody advocating ‘cures’ for homosexuality or ‘monitoring’ it via wierd websites such as that above should be done for harrassment. I really am shocked by the backward trend on this issue -and more so by the fact that in the name of multi-cultural tolerance we appear to be encouraging an atmosphere of intolerance towards gays.

Golf is the nothing less than the willful misuse of a perfectly good rifle range!

This was rectified last week in an ever-recycled episode of The Professionals, where a South African (?) mercenary tried to kill the King of Spain (?) as he watched the absurd goings-on on Centre Court, from a distance of 3 (?) miles, but first he practised by killing a golfer in a particularly revolting golfing outfit.

Nurse, I don’t whom you mean by ‘we’.
At any rate, as any fool knows (and the fools at the SNP sure do), Islamic hatred for gays must be regarded as part of their cultural heritage and it trumps gay rights and in fact must be encouraged in the name of progressive and truly liberal multiculturalism.

So, the question is this: why do “progressives” rightfully castigate religions such as Christianity and Judiasm, but when it comes to Islam, they immediately u-turn and adopt a simpering revential tone? (I’m also thinking of the increasing ludicrious attempts over at LiberalConspiracy to defend the burqa)

I love the way the BNP likes to pretend it’s denatured “civic” nationalism, and thus somehow not the dangerous idiocy that nationalism is. But when they start painting their faces and recruiting outside Braveheart, it’s not difficult to see where the truth lies. And thus, their establishing a new “auld” alliance is hardly a surprised. Good National Socialist party you’ve got there, Mr S.

WTF? is a descendant of pakistani or bangladeshi muslims advocating the dissolution of the United Kingdom, doing in the SNP in the first place. This F*ckwad is an agent for the muslimbrotherhood. The SNP aren’t Scottish Nationalists, they are a bunch of fools being suborned, rather transparently, by a f*cking islamist shite pile. It’s like being colonized by the English wasn’t enough for them now they want the muslims to do it.

Shocked, Israelinurse? This has been the most obvious developing culture clash for some time, except to Queers for Palestine.

“WTF? is a descendant of pakistani or bangladeshi muslims advocating the dissolution of the United Kingdom…”

I presume he was born in the United Kindgom and is exercising his democratic birth-right to express his opinion about the future of his own country.

Brett look for racism and you will see it, it’s called ideological blinders.
If that is what you were implying. I would ask the same question if his background were Danish, Russian, or French. Pierre Trudeau, the Canadian PM, who installed Multicultural ideology in Canadian political life in his book “Toward a Just society” was quite up front about using the idea as away to combat separatist nationalism in the province of Quebec.
Apparatchiks for the EU are using the concept and mass immigration to undermine national identities, forging a european identity at the expense of national ones. The thing is the the people being imported are not a blank slate upon which to write this new identity. In the case of islam, acting through the mosque construction financed by the saudis, or the activities of the muslimbrotherhood and a host of other group(fronts) an attempted at colonization of Europe is taking place. Spunkjars such as this snp infiltrator, seek to weakin’ British identity by exploiting Scottish national aspirations. So you moron be careful whom you attempt to imply is a racist.

Brett look for racism and you will see it, it’s called ideological blinders.
If that is what you were implying. I would ask the same question if his background were Danish, Russian, or French. Pierre Trudeau, the Canadian PM, who installed Multicultural ideology in Canadian political life in his book “Toward a Just society” was quite up front about using the idea as away to combat separatist nationalism in the province of Quebec.
Apparatchiks for the EU are using the concept and mass immigration to undermine national identities, forging a european identity at the expense of national ones. The thing is the the people being imported are not a blank slate upon which to write this new identity. They have the capacity to act in accordance with the goals of their own cultures and civilizations. In the case of islam, acting through the mosque construction financed by the saudis, or the activities of the muslimbrotherhood and a host of other(fronts) an attempted at colonization of Europe is taking place. Spunkjars such as this snp infiltrator, seek to weakin’ British identity by exploiting Scottish national aspirations. So you moron be careful whom you attempt to imply is a racist.

“I would ask the same question if his background were Danish, Russian, or French. “

What about German? Like the Royal Family?

Explain how many generations of your familiy have to be born here before your background is “British” enough to have a say in the country’s political life.

It is easy to understand why policies such as withdrawal from NATO, closing Faslane, pulling all Scottish regiments from the British Army, the cancellation of Trident, state funded Muslim schools (to be run by the Saeed’s dad) and the fragmentation of a former colonial state might appeal to an Islamist like Saeed.

There is also no down side to the SNP in funding Saeed from the public purse.

They can present themselves as truly multicultural, despite the fact that after independence, Scotland would be the most monocultural society in Europe.

The Mu’ta between Saeed and Salmond is a classic win win agreement.

Saeed gets the dissolution of the country he blames for the Nabka, Salmond gets 50,000 votes and the Scottish taxpayers, 70% of whom didn’t vote for either, pay the bill.

Until you realise that the money probably came from Westminster as part of the Barnett formula and that Saeed and Family have managed to get the English taxpayer to subsidise his campaign to get Scottish Muslims to play a role in the loss of North Sea Revenues to Westminster, a re-negotiation of England’s membership of Europe, a weakening of NATO and the loss of a Nuclear base.

He will also probably take a seat at Westminster in the process, be paid £65,000 a year to be in a Parliament he wants abolished and get the English taxpayer to pay for a house in London where he can meet his mates Azzam, Tariq and Mehdi.

But before all that, even before he gets elected, he gets £400,000 funding from the Scottish Government for a major IslamExpo, on the basis that further funding comes from The UAE, but fails to deliver the promised two week, Scottish Exhibition Centre Extravaganza, but get to keep the cash anyway as long as he puts some posters up in the village halls in Auchtermuchtie, Portree and Kilmarnock and calls it Salaam Scotland.

You’ve got to admire his chutzpah.

Kenneth Gunn’s missus is not the full pack either.

The SNP, don’t like the English, Islamists, don’t like the English, gays, infidels or women.

The Scottish wear skirts (or ‘kilts’ if it makes you feel more masculine) to keep themselves cold in the highlands, the Islamists wear dresses (or Kaftans if it makes you feel more multicultural) to keep themselves cool in the lowlands, call me skeptical but men who wear skirts or dresses and who bang on about “cures for gays” and “so called gays” are trying very hard to suppress their true inner ’self’, they should simply try to get in touch with their feminine side, I am sure they wouldn’t regret it, I mean if your national dish is “haggis” you can take anything can’t you.

PS: I have heard Iron Brew tastes like cat piss, is that true?

A really great exposition from Robert Pitt.

First and foremost let’s just make it clear that homophobic prejudice must be stamped out. Let’s make it clear that homophobia has no place in a modern progressive Scotland. Let’s make it clear that everyone in Scotland knows that Scottish National Party is committed to equality and the campaign against ALL bigotry. Indeed the SNP has many many homosexual members and supporters including prominent politicians and councillors. Believe me there isn’t a future in the party for anyone who is a homophobe and as an active member of the SNP I utterly condemn Gunn’s statement.

In government the SNP has expanded hate crime legislation to protect people from the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community and has also injected millions of pounds extra into schemes working with women’s groups, people with disabilities and the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. The SNP has also worked to make it easier for single sex couples to adopt. In fact the SNP has done more for equality for the LGBT community during the first two years of governance in Scotland than any other government has EVER done.

Some of the comments below the article are disgusting, downright slanderous and breathtakingly offensive to the centre-left, decent members and supporters of the SNP. Probably this is mostly down to ignorance, stupidity, prejudice or a mixture of these.

Anyone who even knows the minimum about Scottish politics understands that the SNP is a multi-cultural, centre-left, egalitarian, internationalist, social democratic party with members and supporters from ALL Scotland’s communities: gay, straight, English, Scottish, Asian, African, European, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh and Aethiest.

I am proud to be a member of the most pro-active, internationalist, progressive and social democratic party in Britain.

Here’s to global citizenship and an equal independent Scotland.

Brett, mate you are a dull bulb aren’tcha? If your loyalty is to Britain, I would say one generation is enough to have a say in your country’s political life. But considering this islamist twat is a member of a party that seeks to destroy the Uk. I will go out on a limb and say he isn’t loyal to the UK. His loyalty is to islam, and the UK in the eyes of islamists is the enemy. If you are a westerner, give sayed qtub’s book milestones a read, and stop with the blatantly racist assumption that muslims are incapable of have their own imperialist agenda. The muslimbrotherhood is working toward an islamified UK, and Europe, as per instructed by the “direct” word of god as laid out in the koran, a book they believe has never been altered

Marc

You’re dead right.

The UK can work brilliantly well. The SNP may like to pretend it’s all hairy legged bagpipers, but it is in many ways a front for the muslim brotherhood.

If this sounds nutty check out the ethnicity of its councillors, & follow Private Eye’’s articles on the matter.

Why is a bloke called Celtlord ranting about Britain? Hie thee to your continental homelands son, for we are Euskaldunak.

Yes Mick, sorry! My memories of carefree childhood summer holidays -back in the days when there used to be a summer -in glorious Scotland have been shattered since I started reading these HP threads about what goes on north of the border.

It’s not just Muslims and Christians. My husband’s family has a bunch of formerly Reform Jews who have become ultra-Orthodox. (They are unbelievably annoying.) They are extremely disapproving of homosexuality, and are quite horrid to the gay people in our family. What they would do if they found out that one of their children were gay I cannot bear to think.

The SNP are not bothered too much about having an Opus Dei member standing for election in Glasgow North either. The future MP stated we should keep religion out of politics, then incredibly slated the Scottish Reformation as being evil.

I once had the misfortune to sit having lunch in a Highland beauty spot next to some leading Nats. After a few drams, I would have swore blind it wsas the BNP sitting beside me. Exchange the words Black for English and you’ll understand.

A party based on hate is not speaking on my behalf!

Independence for England!

No sharia here!

Yeah Fraser. Remind me of these fairy tales when I next see some SNP member celting it up, painting his face and screaming murderous abuse at anyone they deem to be English (as I saw last summer at a party do).

Fraser, Why is it that on every UK blog there’s an SNP member acting as an apologist by trotting out some pre-rehearsed party line whenever they get it wrong?

Fraser will make a fine politician. Endless bien pensant words, no answer to the question. He’s a member of a party which has openly homophobic members in appointed positions who are not being disciplined. If a back bench Labour MP put down a motion that said homosexuals are sinful they would be deselected. The SNP regard councillors who are openly homophobic as members in good standing and has them as councillors and candidates. That’s because the SNP has one policy (“the English are all cunts because Mel Gibson and Sean Connery say so”) and anyone who signs up for that is more than welcome. SNP, BNP: same politics, different clothes.

Fraser, your bromides about how ‘everyone in Scotland knows’ that SNP is committed to ‘the campaign against ALL bigotry’ would be a lot more convincing if the central impetus of the SNP was something other than Anglophobic bigotry.

Just a few points .

1. The SNP is NOT a racist party. It is also NOT racist for many Scots to seek to re-establish national independence. it is in fact the norm for most countries. There is no reason for Scotland to be a subject state of England. Period. We don’t need it and you are not owed it.

2. I’ll take no lectures on narrow minded nationalism from the English – who are nationalists par excellence.

3. This is the nation that complained about celebrations of Bannockburn a year or two ago, yet thought nothing of sending half the Royal Navy to Plymouth to celebrate the battle of Trafalgar the same year.

4. This is the nation that makes a point of disliking the French, stereotyping all other Europeans and their closest neighbours as thick (the Irish), Aggressive (Scots) or just generally awful (Welsh – God knows why. They seem perfectly nice to me.) (Ah, but then we Scots have no sense of humour you see. Not like the English who absolutely love it when the Celts/Americans/Ausies, etc, start ripping the p**s out of them.)

5. This is the nation that enables a lanky, talentless twat like Louise Theroux to make a career out of pandering to their anti-American prejudice by filming weirdos in the USA. He could just as easily film English nutters, but that wouldn’t reinforce the comfy stereotypes about Americans so dear to Englands heart.

6. This is the nation whose citizens move to Spain to get away from Immigrants, who completely fail to see the irony of their position.

I have no time for Osmaa Saeed and think Alex Salmond is being foolish over his patronage, but that will become clear as time goes on and he will be dealt with. The other buffoon and his foolish views on religion and sexuality will also be dealt with, probably by now having zero credibility with most party members, but not by public lynching in some kangaroo court to appease anti-Scottish bigots in England.

The SNP are not the BNP and are not racist – yes I know both parties have three initials and its ever so confusing, but do try to keep up.

AS far as racism is concerned ; I recommend asking the opinions of some people of colour who have lived in both England and Scotland about where they felt most conmfortable and see how you get on.

Oh, and just for the record, my family are from Liverpool.

What a pity that the legitimate desire of a growing number of Scots to be independent from England, and so support Alex Salmond and the SNP is taken as Anglo phobic bigotry.

The imperialistic mindset that causes the UK to be regarded as primarily England by some is the reason the SNP was born in the first place. The London centric nature of the UK is what is taking us out of the UK and the sooner the better for all concerned.

For the SNP to be branded anti English does not stand up, and says much more about the insecurities and phobias of some in England, than any problems we have in Scotland. Provide the evidence for your alleged anti English hysteria??

For God sake you are even trying to nick the Haggis, the sacred beast of Scotland. How pathetic are you prepared to be?

If a back bench Labour MP put down a motion that said homosexuals are sinful they would be deselected

If that were true (and I think it’s not) then it is quite extraordinary, and obscene, and incredibly, fantastically, theologically ignorant and anti-Christian in the extreme.

Unless, that is, the reason (I am told) a slang term for those who identify as homosexuals is “Mary” is because somehow having such a preference is ipso facto evidence that one was immaculately conceived, obviously.

Of course people who identify as homosexuals are sinners. They aren’t another species, you know. They are no different from anyone else.

Hierarchy of hatred. Racism is a big no no, with “Islamophobia” being even worse, but homophobia? Meh, who cares eh?

Scotland want’s total independence, great, give it to them, today.

But just Scotland however, nothing else. Not one single penny of English money should be given to the Scots, surely they can pay for their own Haggis, hospitals and social security or do they pay for those things now anyway? I am not being funny, seriously I don’t know, is the land of the Scot’i self funding these days or do the English make huge profits from Scotland?

I heard Robert D’e Bruce was of French aristocracy ancestry and that William Wallace couldn’t speak English, so as you can see, my Scottish history is a bit shaky. I also heard that there where lots and lots of “Scotsmen” in the Imperialist armies of the English Imperialists, is that true?

Anyway after independence it would not be honorable to expect money from the horrible English anyway would it, surely you agree with that.

Oh yes and will my wife whose father was Scottish be able to apply for a passport and emigrate to Scotland even though she was born in England and has an english accent? Will the Scots be running a points sort of system for prospective immigrants?

Although I’m not an SNP supporter I’d agree that it’s inaccurate to bracket them with the BNP or even UKIP.

However, the problem with/for them is that they’ve got no real political beliefs other than independence. Although the party leadership is generally centre-left, it’s perfectly possible for someone to be a party member and hold pretty right-wing views on economic and social issues.

Perhaps the most worrying thing about them, though, is the tendency to see those of us who don’t see any benefits in breaking away from the rest of the UK not as fellow citizens who happen to take a different view on the ideal constitution for these islands, but as quislings and traitors. Don’t believe me? Take a look at the comments on the Scotsman web site any day of the week. Or better still, read what leading Nat Winnie Ewing said a few years ago, and which the SNP think is acceptable enough to quote on its own web site:

“The enemies of Scotland are the traitors within the gate, the unionist parties”

Andrew, If you don’t want to take lectures on narrow minded nationalism from the English, then start accepting them from fellow Scots. I look forward to the party hierarchy ‘dealing with’ the islamic bigots they have recruited as allies. But until they do (and I won’t be holding my breath waiting for that) the party deserve all the criticism those alliances attract. So far they’ve got off lightly. Meanwhile your posted views encapsulate my criticism exactly; specifically when you attack ‘the English nation’ in such a generalised and bigoted fashion.

Further on that point, Duncan, your belief that criticising the bigotry which pervades the SNP says more about people in England presupposes that all those critics are English. This is not the case, but it is another classic SNP assumption which demonstrates the anti-English prism through which most SNP members view the world.

Och (and that was a gratuitious “och”), when I lived up there, the Nats kept feeding me the “The enemy of Scotland is not England. It is the Scot born without imagination” line – and in general (as a mixture of English, Scottish and Ulster Irish, but with something of an English accent) they seemed to be true to their word.

I really don’t mind the SNP. The other line they used to feed was that they were united on only one policy – Scottish independence; and that, when that would arrive, they would fracture into separate parties. Now, perhaps the experience of other countries that have gained independence may well lead one to take that with a pinch of salt; but again it seems to me that the SNP have an admirably broad range of people in positions of actual or potential importance, and are far more open to disparate views (and not prone to bossily issue intolerant and authoritarian and amoral demands for insincere apologies in the way that NuLabour would shamelessly do) than, well, quite a few other parties.

I’m no fan of nationalism, nor the concept of the nation state; but that proviso aside (& noting that I’ve not lived up there since devolution took effect), the SNP seem at least to me to be as good as nationalist parties anywhere in the democratic world get.

Explain how many generations of your familiy have to be born here before your background is “British” enough to have a say in the country’s political life

But Brett you fail to grasp that some individuals define themselves primarily by their religion. Saeed IS such a person. He’s simply not interested in being British OR Scottish.

Wasn’t he instrumental in setting up a separatist, all-muslim troup of boyscouts who pledge their oath to Allah and not The Queen?

What Alex Salmond fails to realise is that imperialism takes many forms, and that one form in particular has wormed its way into his entourage. “Liberated” from the oppressive English only to be colonised by Islamists.

The nationalists in Québec have struck up similar alliances with Islamists, islamist as disinterested in integration as Saeed, proving once again that nationalism is a sickness that will employ any desperate means to achieve its ends.

I’ve just checked Osama Saeed’s link from his blog and discovered that he has called the page “Islam and homos”.

http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/01/islam_and_homos.html

I look forward to his next links on Islam and Niggers, Islam and Pakis, and Islam and Yids.

You really couldn’t make it up.

Err, no, that isn’t fair comment really, the page is not called “Islam and homos” it is called “Islam and Homosexuality”.

As the two pages of the blog immediately adjacent to it suggest
http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/01/labour_party_st.html
and
http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/01/no_more_west_wi.html

(and numerous others), it looks like the URL automatically cuts itself to the first 15 characters of the title of the post.

So, well: no.

The point is that Saeed links to a page that is homophobic. The page linked to has a load of stuff about De Sondy, with more innuendoes about his sexual preference than you would get from Kenneth Williams on amphetamines.

Such as

“This despite the fact that people who have known him for years say that they expected him to come out with something eventually. Well here it is (or almost).”

Bigotry is bigotry, and the only difference between the standard variety and religious inspired bigotry is that the latter has a greater proclivity to chuck some more homos on the fire.

In between times lets call what Saeed did “an example of a raging homophobe exhibiting double standards while claiming all the benefits of western freedoms to practise his own form of homo hunt”.

I’m sorry, I meant to say “Freudian Slip” there.

As it says on the linked page….

“Personally, I tolerate (unhappily) the presence of homosexuality in our society the same way I tolerate (sadly) the existence of atheism and worship of false gods.”

I guarantee I will give Muslims the same level of tolerance in return.

“Osama Saeed posted a recomendation on his blog for an antigay group – Eye on Gay Muslims- which monitors gay Muslims, advocates cures for homosexuality and calls on gay Muslims to repent.” Most of them will not repent, exept fpr the few that are further damged by feelings of inculcated guilt. I know only too many muslims who will NOT, repent, but will become doubly exhibionistic about their inclinations. They are rebelling against the prison house of UNNATURALY imposed social constitutions, Compared to these they represent nature. And we can’t return to religious bigots, to age old laws, which have no feeling for social dialectics. Even Jesus said the old vats have to filled with new wine. He accepted the prostitute, the sinner, oposed stoning and in the Gospel of St. Mathew, accepted a type of ‘Eunuch’ that was not made for marriage. The marriage of celibate men with God is, paradoxically, a denial of the the ‘natural’ process of reproduction,as is that of nuns,monks and priests if they can resist their natural desisres.

Ther have been several posts defending the NSP. If I have understood correctly, Saeed’s sermon above has been accepted by the SNP despite affermations to the contrary, Saeeds statement pulls any party that accepts it in to the lowest dung-heap of vicious immorality.

Homosexuality is not something that can be cured. After a life time of seeing such clumsy and ignorant cures attempted, all they do is to further damage people who might otherwise have led happier lives. I saved one of my friends from the clutches of such a demented English psychiatrist, who became threatening. Either you follow unrealisable the cure, which was bending him in a direction he did not want to follow and the alternative was condemnation and hell-fire. The psychiatrist revealed his true nature.

People who are over-anxious to deny their homosexuality are obviously tryinìng to deny the own gay impulses, like the Sharia men for whom the sight of a woman not completely covered from head to foot is an irresistable attraction, and a woman who shows a fraction of her body are already prostitute.

On more than one occassion, big lusty men, who have sensed my gayness, and were agressive about it, have ended up leaping on me. I had a student, who was very aggressive about gayness, but always made sure that he sat very close to me in the class room, and could hardly retain his gay impulses. Not to mention my girl friend’s rigidly homophobic Albanian boyfriend, who won’t meet me but tries to have telephone sex with me.

The human race is basically bisexual: People can go one way or the other and they do. The Koran ordains tha boys and girls sleep in separate beds, otherwise the temptation of boys in the same bed would (by implication) be overwhelming.

The hostile fear behind manifestations homosexuality is its withdrawal from the reproduction of the human race. In this there would be no danger, were it not for the fact, that the family, unit is reducing itself for reasons of economic survival to one ot two children or none. Even in Italy the family unit has been reduced to one and a half people. The immigrant population may proliferate and provide us with some of the missing population, but they too, in the long run will be drawn into this economically limited unit.

I know some gays won’t like me for this, but I think masturbation and homosexual sex, in which the seeds go to waste, are still practising the art of reproduction, which the reproduction of the species relies on – unless the species is not worth reproducing.
Baudelaire was violently opposed to the reproduction of the species under prevailing socio-economic condtions. (Allow for provocative theses)

This is very worrying:

Osama Saeed posted a recomendation on his blog for an antigay group – Eye on Gay Muslims- which monitors gay Muslims, advocates cures for homosexuality and calls on gay Muslims to repent.
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“monitors gay muslims” – so that would be stalking would it? Conspiracy? Building and sharing an illegal database?

“advocates cures”, and “calls on gay muslims to repent”- or else what? Harassment and threatening behaviour, especially from an internet group who are “monitoring” you perhaps.

Looks borderline illegal to me. No-one should have to put up with being stalked by a nest of crazies.

Just in response to Fraser’s hyping of the SNP’s LGBT credentials, the hate crime legislation extending protection to disabilty as well as sexuality and gender identity was an initiative by Scottish Green MSP, Patrick Harvie, and not at all by the Nats.

As various comments have stressed, the SNP is a very different sort of party to UKIP or the BNP, and its nationalism is for the most part very multi-cultural but it does have both its “Brits out” tendency and right-wing nutters to rival the Tories. Its leadership have somehow managed to get away with cosying up to religious fundamentalists of all sorts while pushing the multicultural/inclusive line – something will have to give in the end.

The Scottish wear skirts (or ‘kilts’ if it makes you feel more masculine) to keep themselves cold in the highlands, the Islamists wear dresses (or Kaftans if it makes you feel more multicultural) to keep themselves cool in the lowlands, call me skeptical but men who wear skirts or dresses and who bang on about “cures for gays” and “so called gays” are trying very hard to suppress their true inner ’self’, they should simply try to get in touch with their feminine side, I am sure they wouldn’t regret it, I mean if your national dish is “haggis” you can take anything can’t you.

Anaximanders other sandal – have you ever thought about blowing your own brains out? I think you should consider the possibility that it might make the world a marginally less stupid and bigoted place if you did…

Thelonious: Are you the paranoid keeper of the keys on the Scotsman forum? You know who you are because the Winnie Ewing quote has been used by you on that very forum many times and as you have done here quoted out of context. You do not even have the moral fibre or the decency to use the full quote, such is you obsession and paranoia about Scottish nationalism. it is precisely that duplicity we have come to expect from unionists such as your self.

Here is that quote in full:

“The enemies of Scotland are not the English, as one of our founders RB Cunningham Grahame said, they are in fact well disposed towards us. The enemies of Scotland are the traitors within the gate, the unionist parties who, whilst claiming to be Scottish, don’t wish for their country the normal freedom that every world citizen expects for their country.”

Winnie Ewing is one of the finest and most honourable people it has been my pleasure to meet. Even if she were a Tory I would like her. So your lies have been exposed.

As to the Scotsman forum, it has become like the old Herald forum a cesspit of agitators and people like your self who haunt there 24/7 for the express purpose of winding people up, throwing juvenile sneers and taunts, and should quite frankly be shut down. To equate that with Scottish independence and it’s supporters is deluded, and shows how utterly desperate the unionist agents in Scotland now are as they witness the ground falling away beneath their feet. Around half a dozen fruitcakes contribute to that forum, under various monikers, you are one.

Finally if you want to see some good old fashioned Anglos Saxon anti Scottish bigotry, take a look at old Anaximanders here. Or pop in to the Mail or Telegraph forums whenever the subject of Scotland’s financial arrangements comes up. But the best one of all is Guido who does not censor or delete comments, (unlike yourself on your rancid blogs, which cannot make it into the top 100,) this has to be amongst the most bigoted comments you will find in the cyber asylum. http://tinyurl.com/l8teab

Thatcher was the most anti Scottish person on the planet until she met Wark.

Der Whigphilosophie der Geschichte, despite my asking you have been unable to provide one shred of evidence of your allegations, this bigotry and anti English guff comes from you and your paranoia, it exists in the cyber sewer, in real life the SNP are getting on with running Scotland, very efficiently, and the public see it and are getting behind them. The SNP is a broad church and has within it’s ranks English born MSPs, and amongst it’s supporters people of many nations, creeds and colours. It is not a land of milk and honey and political perfection, we have our loose cannons as does any human organisation.

From the above comments we can see that Scottish Nationalism is bad, but British nationalism is good.

The police here in Scotland have just picked up the tab for policing the Orange Order parades this summer. Over a million pounds. Small beer in London terms but very significant in Scotland.

This to allow Orange Order bigots, flying The Union Jack, parade their triumphalism, celebrating The Battle of the Boyne, a slaughter of Catholics and the imposition of a foreign King on the throne of England, a throne which to this day does not allow Catholics to sit on it. British nationalism in Ireland has soaked that country in blood.

Please keep your lectures on bigotry and practise a little less hypocrisy. We can learn a lot from you.

Duncan, although I read the Scotsman comments pages I’ve never commented there in my life. If there is a Thelonious who writes there it’s someone else with the same user name and not me.

And yes, the full Winnie Ewing quote did say that the SNP weren’t anti-English. But the bit I pointed out was the bit where she explicity referred to fellow Scots who disagreed with the SNP as “traitors” and “the enemy within”. That’s dangerous language, but the SNP allowed it to appear on their official web site. But it seems that to point this out is “obsession and paranoia”

And as far as I’m concerned, ALL nationalism is crap. I’m not a Scottish nationalist, but I’m not a UK nationalist either.

Fraser claims: ‘Let’s make it clear that everyone in Scotland knows that Scottish National Party is committed to equality and the campaign against ALL bigotry.’
No they don’t, everyone in Scotland knows perfectly well that the SNP’s main donor is a notorious homophobe who bankrolled a poisononous campaign to keep section 28. If the SNP were serious about equality then Councillor Gunn and Mr Saeed’s feet wouldn’t touch the ground on the way out the party…..

Duncan,

“Winnie Ewing is one of the finest and most honourable people it has been my pleasure to meet. ”

That wouldn’t be the same Winnie Ewing who goose-stepped her way through Europe with her fascist pals, would it?

“…..we have our loose cannons as does any human organisation.”

Except in the case of the SNP it’s a few loose Kalashnikovs.

Alex Salmond would treat with the devil if he thought is would gain another 6 votes.

He is a dealmaker, and a very good one. Any politician that can hold together traditional conservatives, former SSP members looking for asylum, and Islamists who only believe in Democracy as a route towards Theocracy is a force to be reckoned with.

Thelonious, TRAITOR: “In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of disloyalty to one’s sovereign or nation. Historically, treason also covered the murder of specific social superiors, such as the murder of a husband by his wife (treason against the king was known as high treason and treason against a lesser superior was petit treason). A person who commits treason is known in law as a traitor.

Oran’s Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: “…[a]…citizen’s actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation].” In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour.

Outside legal spheres, the word “traitor” may also be used to describe a person who betrays (or is accused of betraying) their own political party, nation, family, friends, ethnic group, team, religion, social class, or other group to which they may belong. Often, such accusations are controversial and disputed, as the person may not identify with the group of which they are a member, or may otherwise disagree with the group leaders making the charge. See, for example, race traitor. ”

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When I see a Scottish Labour MP, standing up in the house of commons, (Davidson.) To shout “who cares,” when a question was asked on Scotland.

When I see the disrespectful buffoonery and bawbaggery that Foulkes and his unionist agents practise in Holyrood.

When I hear Murphy gloating and sneering at Ireland, Iceland, Norway and the arc of prosperity, as a means of getting at Scottish independence.

When we hear of labour delegates at conference, “punching the air with delight,” at the news that HBOS was in trouble.

When I watched John Reid at conference stand up and sneer and lie, yes lie about his perception of what independence would bring to Scotland. Passports at Gretna. Families torn apart.

When I hear George Robertson comparing an independent Scotland to Bangladesh.

This fallacious garbage pumped out by unionist Scots who are so corrupt in their behaviour, and lie through their teeth about their native land, I am perfectly comfortable with the above definition of a traitor as applied to them. And I applaud the SNP for telling the truth and putting it on the web site.

What is dangerous and has caused great harm to Scotland throughout the decades of Labour hegemony is the perpetuation of this lie by the media. Which is why a once respected and popular newspaper, like the Scotsman is now in it’s death throws. The campaign on the forum and the articles by Maddox are an affront to a free press.

You want traitors, have you read the works of Grahamski? Since you say you read the forum, you must be familiar with his out pouring of bile and his constant sneering cowardly disgusting reference to the SNP as Nazis. Like the droppings he has just deposited, it was his efforts that was a major contribution to the Heralds decision to close their forum. There is a little nest of his kind who haunts these forums for that very purpose. Destroy and disrupt the debate, because they will never ever win the argument. They fit the traitor mould perfectly.

A very special brand of hatred is reserved for Winnie Ewing as she is regarded as, the one person who did more than anyone to break the hegemony of Labour in Scotland. Her win in Hamilton sticks in their craw. Any thing that can and will be done to smear her will be, as you have just shown. Scottish politics have changed for the better, and forever thanks to her and the SNP, and that is what is driving this mince.

Duncan,
tsktsk..Winnie Ewing attracts Scotland’s opprobium because she allied herself and her tartan clique with the crypto-fascists in the Italian Lega Nord not because she won (and subsequently lost) an election in Hamilton. No amount of dissembling on your part can hide that fact.
You claim to have heard that “labour delegates at conference, “punching the air with delight,” at the news that HBOS was in trouble” but you couldn’t possibly have. This comes from a pathetic piece of polemic from a nationalist journalist who claimed that delegates were “practically punching the air” and agreed later that his claim was nonsensical. How can you ‘practically’ punch the air? Anyway, good to see that as you accuse others of distortions and lies you can’t quite resist indulging yourself…..

Robert Pitt I once took my sons out to shoot deer, we killed a hind and I showed them how to gralloch it, skin it, quarter it and carry it home. Then we went fishing, we caught two salmon and I showed them how to kill gut and smoke them. I did not use Kalashnikovs to hunt the deer, but a Lee Enfield 303, the rifle that killed millions, with a member of the working class at either end.

The incident I presume you are alluding to, was when said councillor took his kids to a range to shoot a Kalashnikov, which in the part of the world he comes from is a perfectly normal and socially acceptable way to behave, as Kalashnikovs are as common there as TV sets here.

He is from a different country and a different culture. Can you imagine the howling from the unionist agents if the SNP had sacked him? Racist, racist, you can hear them now.

He broke no law, either in this country or his own. The holiday and the incident took place two years before he became a councillor. If I was a native of that region I would ensure my kids were able to fire a Kalashnikov, as the British have also done for centuries with military cadets, from age 13 and in many private schools, from much earlier. Kids grow up on farms able to shoot as soon as they can hold the gun. A nothing argument.

Your points on Alex Salmond are well made. Which is what makes him the respected statesman he is and the target of the bile and vitriol you can see on this forum. If he brokers a deal with some one and advances the cause of Scottish independence then he gets my vote every time.

“If he brokers a deal with some one and advances the cause of Scottish independence then he gets my vote every time.”

That is where we differ. I worry greatly that the Saeeds were able to bring a block Muslim vote to the SNP by a religious edict.

The MAB got a religious leader, Haytham bin Jawwad al-Haddad to write a piece entitled: “Why Vote, and Who To Vote For?” In it he said that the political arena was far too complex for those inexperienced in such issues to make a sensible decision and that Muslims: “.. should entrust this responsibility to the prominent Muslim organisations that have sufficient experience and ability to determine the issue according to the interests of the Muslims.

…I advise my brothers and sisters to forsake their individual opinions in favour of the opinion of the collective

..I have come to the conclusion that the major Muslim organisation concerned about politics in UK so far is the Muslim Association of Britain.”

The MAB in Scotland was run at the time by Saeed, his Dad, his brother and his cousin.

As you said Duncan, “If he brokers a deal with some one and advances the cause of Scottish independence then he gets my vote every time.”

To me a religious leader telling people that politics is too complicated for them and they should vote as told to by an SNP candidate undermines democracy.

But then again, if it advances nationalism, your attitude seems to be the end justifies the means. For me, thousands of people voting on the basis of the instruction of a religious leader is very worrying.

The infiltration of the SNP by a colonizing endeavor, such as the muslimbrotherhood front, the muslim association of Britain and a host of others does not Advance the cause of Scottish Independence. Infiltration corrupts it. A significant disaster on the road to colonization by the English was co-option of the nobility, period’s political elite. Scots are also members of a greater culture, Western. The remarkable contributions Scots have made to this other part of our heritage, near every feild of human practice and study has some Scottish giant in it’s history. Greek classics filled the heads of Scottish Philosophers giving birth to ideas that helped free us from the yoke of the church, … you know the list of Scottish influence, participation in, and benefit from Western civilization is to long to list. Anything, like being colonized by islam, (which unifies governance and religion), practiced by the likes of the muslimbrotherhood, that weakens that civilization weakens and harms Scotland, not just the legitimate desire for self-determination by rightly proud Scots.

“Anaximanders other sandal – have you ever thought about blowing your own brains out? I think you should consider the possibility that it might make the world a marginally less stupid and bigoted place if you did…”

Go and have a “dram” you Rab C Nesbitt Scottish prick. The SNP are nationalists, with a socialist bent so as far as I am concerned you are no different from other nationalist socialists, so go play your bagpipes, eat your haggis and have your wet dreams about william wallace, because without the financial support of England, Scotland would be just a big fucking national park for weekend walkers.

North Sea oil will make you all Saudi Sheiks, yeah right.

Duncan,

Having gralloched enough deer myself in my time, I suspect the estate factors and managers would have had a different attitude if you had brought your five-year old along to the stalk with an assault rifle. And if the kind of weapon involved concerns you, perhaps Hanif could have used one of the Lee Enfield SMLE’s and No.4’s still plentifully available in the border areas of Pakistan. I imagine you’d be slightly less quick to defend him on the grounds of ‘different country and culture’ if the cultural differences involved executing local people for adultery, or for the crime of educating girls. Meanwhile, Hanif was a Scottish politician, and should be judged as as such. I imagine you’d be less keen to defend a Scottish politician being photographed with an AK-47 on holiday in East Belfast or South Armagh, despite the ‘cultural’ differences involved.

Brokering deals with the devil didn’t do nationalist politicians in Weimar Germany any good, so perhaps the SNP should pay more attention to the secular democratic credentials of their allies before they jump into bed with them.

In the interests of fairness, I have to point out that SNP MSP Joe Fitzpatrick has called for Cllr Gunn to be disciplined by the party. But MSP Kenneth Gibson still doesn’t see what all the fuss is about: “The individual in question is not an MSP, therefore to suggest this tars us all with these alleged comments is nonsensical”. Further details in the Sunday Herald.

Youtube: McGlashan ranting to see Celtlord in action………

Funny vid, ok now,let’s see one about the debilitating inferiority complex so common among scottish morons whose idea of historic awareness is breakfast or supper depending on the time of day. You know like this failed attempt at birthcontrol, grahamski. The only reason this dolt is on the planet is because the Pill didn’t work for his mum, everytime she stood up it fell out.