Harry's Place

All good until the last paragraph. When was the British Marxist Left ever not irrelevant? Would that so were the British Marxist Right, as the American Marxist Right now is.

Hamas have a long history of Holocaust denial in various forms, but it doesn’t seems to trouble their Western supporters too much.

“From aljazeera “Khaled Meshaal also praised Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, for his “courage” in having dismissed the Holocaust as a myth and calling for Israel to be moved out of the Middle East to Europe or North America.”

Only recently, on the 31st of March 2008, Khaled Meshaal tells a Sky interviewer:

“KM: We don’t want to harm any religion in the world. We don’t deny the holocaust.
But, we believe the Zionists have exaggerated the numbers to get sympathy from other nations. But, there is Palestinian suffering caused by Israel.””

http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/hamas-and-the-holocaust/

Its especially galling due to the active participation of Arabs and Palestinians in The Holocaust…………..

We already did that on another thread sarge! It only encourages the troll johng to deny any facts presented to him.

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency pays for the education of 200,000 Palestinian children in the Gaza strip.

Dear UMWRA School,

Please excuse Ahmed fom school as he is attending Hamas Shahid Training Camp and won’t be able to return to school for some time- Inshallah, never!

Yours Sincerely,

Very Proud Parents.

BTW this ought to cause Galloway a problem because he has always strongly attacked any Holocaust Denial on his radio programs.

I know how he’ll get out of it. “Who says that? Israeli papers? I haven’t heard Hamas say that.”

Don’t worry. They’ll say it was taken out of context or mistranslated or something, and that what they really want to make sure is that the children get a book showing how the zionists co-operated with the Nazis to kill the Jews they didn’t want so they could take the rest to help them drive the Palestinians out of their land–oh no, sorry, switch into Islamist discourse, so they could steal Muslim lands and desecrate Al Aqsa etc etc. Galloway is happily broadcasting on Press TV so I doubt if he’s that strong on Holocaust denial. Plus he can say Mr Zionist Lies wasn’t speaking on behalf of Hamas.

Simples!

So, I’ve been checking out Talkback sections re: this issue on YNet and Haaretz. It appears as though a few stock leftist responses have already begun to take form:

“Yes, Holocaust denial is bad, but it’s no worse than denying the ‘naqba’”.

“Why should the Palestinians care about past Jewish suffering, when their own present suffering is so great?”

“The Zionist response to the Shoah is what caused the Palestinian ‘genocide’ in the first place. They are right not to care about it.”

No one I’ve seen has engaged in holocaust denial him or herself, but they seem to be giving Hamas a lot of leeway on this one. Frightening.

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency pays for the education of 200,000 Palestinian children in the Gaza strip.

Why should the UN subsidise this? Let their Arab brethren do it, the ones awash in billions of oil wealth.

These refugee children from 1947 still in United Nations schools must be the longest living children in the world. At what age do they graduate?

Ruckus of dogs :
‘The United Nations Relief and Works Agency pays for the education of 200,000 Palestinian children in the Gaza strip’.
WRONG, it’s not the United Nations who are paying.UN doesn’t ever never pay anything. We ( The EU and USA) are paying, and not only for the schools, we do also pay living expences for about 200.000 families in Gaza.

Roll up, roll up, collect your banners here! Those on the left.”We are all Hamas’ cretins now”, those on the right “Welcome!”.

Well, they love it don’t they? They’ve got their denial mechanisms in place and they’re all ready to go ballistic on anyone who argues the toss, so a large section of the Left are about ready to disappear up their own arses and basically just be a pure support group for terrorists with not even pretence of solidarity with the working class. Just as well too- we don’t want their poisoned chalice thanks!

The Anarchists were right all along- everything the SWP touches turns to shit!

This kind of willful ignorance and refusal to recognize the simple facts of the situation are the main obstacle to peace in the Middle East. It is not possible to have peace with people who insist their children be uneducated to the basic, essential facts of the circumstances surrounding national history.

The real “nakba” is the Palestinian’s toxic culture of shame, blame and hatred.

Point of pedantry perhaps, but did any sizable number ever turn out with ‘we’re all hamas now’ placards? Got photos of that ferinstance? ‘We’re all hezbollah now’ was a popular one of course but that’s not exactly the same thing you’re accusing them of, even though a lot of the doublethink left act as if they’re hamas now.

John Ging was, as it happens, the source of the claim about the attack on the UN school that actually never happened. He was also the source that claimed that Israel had destroyed “tonnes and tonnes” of food in Gaza’s warehouses, yet was never able to explain why, if there had been “tonnes and tonnes” , he was also able to claim that Gazans were starving. Who was he saving it for? Hamas?

He is a compulsive liar and harbors blind hatred of Israel, but I wonder how he feels about his Holocaust-denying friends now that he can’t hide behind the “we’re not anti-Semites, only anti-Zionists” BS??

And Israel is into nakba denial.

I guess that makes it a tie

Jonathan already predicted someone would make a comment like Toms. But…

Tom, the Nazis, with the aid of the Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem’s Muslim SS, killed almost every Jew in Europe. 1/3 of Jews in the world.

The Nakba is a result of the Arabs not accepting the UN plan to divide (what was left of Palestine after Britian illegally gave the Arabs 78% in 1922 to found Jordan) and invading the newly formed Jewish State with 5 Arab armies. The Palestinians are you only group to have their own arm of the UN solely responsible for them. They have been given more aid than any other people in history (more than the Marshall plan etc per capita).

What exactly does you’re statement mean? We’re talking about a Palestinian terrorist/political group specifically. When you say “Israel” are you referring to a political party? Every one? Jews? What do you mean by that?

The marxists and the rest of the rotten left will say that what Hamas really meant was that they wanted to “erase the Holocaust from the pages of time” (like Ahmadinejad), or maybe that Hamas was against the “myth” of the Holocaust, like Norman Finkelstein.

Anyway, Hamas are the new Nazis. Only they do not command a powerful war machine like the Germans, only a bunch of numbskulls with borrowed rockets. That is the only difference. Ah, and that they speak Arabic instead of German.

And Israel is into nakba denial.

In the same class I expect Israel is into Father Christmas denial and that Homer Simpson really IS a cartoon.

What about the Palestinian Self-Nacker!

Is it a recognition of their failure to destroy the Jews in 1948. Their devastating decisions and loss are the start of a long losing streak.

This week saw 100,000 Arab refugees created, so why aren’t the “Toms” of this world complaining about it???

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/08/28/this_week_at_war_the_middle_easts_cold_war_heats_up

Funny how they don’t ever mention the 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries (I don’t remember the UN helping with that btw). Tom etc also never mention that Morocco is occupying a country (western Sahara) and “settling” it with Moroccans.

We might also remember that Muslim Council of Britain refused to commemorate Holocaust Memorial and the advisory group that Blair commissioned to tell him how to be a better Dhimmi to the UK Muslim population after 7/7 said that Holocaust Memorial was offensive to some Muslims. I believe that MCB also called HMD “racially exclusive” and complained that the Nacker should be part of HMD, and until it was they would refuse to acknowledge HMD.

Only problem is that HMD recognises several Genocides and features a non-Holocaust Genocide as its theme every year. Nakba ain’t a genocide. Self-inflicted “disasters” can’t be.

Dare I venture that this Holocaust Denial thing is not only something from the neo-Nazis but also a strand that runs through (some/few/many/oh I don’y know) Muslims. Its an Islamist-type idea that goes back to traditional Jew hatred from Mohammeds days. Hamas latest pronouncement is in line with that of Iran. Correct me if I’m wrong but while many in Hamas are Arabs those in Iran are not classed as Arabs. Hence, the only link is that they share Islamic beliefs about the nature of Jews. I think that is fair comment.

Don’t forget that the Koran celebrates the genocide of a whole Jewish tribe in Arabia.

The third major Jewish tribe in Medina, Banu Qurayza was eliminated when the Muslims besieged their fortifications not long after the fall of the Banu Nadir, an event reported in Surah 33:25-27 of the Qur’an.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule

Evidence of Modern Islamic Anti-semitism;

http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeAVBYAbn0

I like the photo of George Galloway firmly holding a massive cock.

Great post! And Django, that’s hilarious!

The BBC’s report of this story was shocking: http://www.oyvagoy.com/2009/08/however/

The usual suspects of the malicious Left will simply ignore this.

For these far left “children of the damned” these superior beings, Denial is always the best form of defense, eyes closed, fingers in ears and singing (very, very loudly) “we will keep the” green “flag flying here”.

Yes indeed, this is simply a mirage, a dream, there is no attempt by their new found oppressed proletariat to deny the holocaust, they don’t want a new chapter, no new history, there is only their reality, their history, their books, their belief in the goodness of marxism and the militancy of anti-imperialist Islamism and they will “rewrite” the wrongs of not only this but what they genuinely believe are falsifications of marxist history, they will ignore the threat posed by radical islamists, because these islamists do not fit in with their perceived image of what constitutes an “imperialist”, these islamists are not western capitalists, they must simply be oppressed, as far as they are concerned any other explanation for this islamist hatred has to be lies and if it’s Zionist lies then so much the better.

Awkward contradictions of their heart felt beliefs, their belief in a moral marxism, their belief in a compassionate communism, their belief that they are the “good guys” are always judged to be lies, their reactions exactly mirror the islamist mentality, all evidence contrary to their heartfelt belief is deemed to be the machinations of a malicious unseen enemy, an enemy determined to oppress their beloved proletarian urchins or their beloved soldiers of Allah.

The millions of dead don’t enter marxist or islamist equations, you see to them the millions of dead must have been guilty of something, they must have been enemies of either the people or Allah, they simply must have been because if they weren’t then their belief, their claim of holding the moral high ground simply evaporates like the morning dew and they discover that they are no better than all the other despotic movements that have claimed to be the guardians of the poor and oppressed, a reality they cannot and will not accept.

History has shown us what a radical Islamist or Marxist world would look like has it not or is the Taliban a Zionist lie, was the USSR a Zionist lie.

Denial, a refusal to accept the truth, that is what the Far Left/islamist alliance are good at, why should they change the habit of an ideological lifetime, it has served them so well in the past.

‘Tom_W
1 September 2009, 2:38 am

And Israel is into nakba denial.’

‘depends what you mean by ‘nakbah’:

a) Palestinian Christian and Muslim dispossession, obviously not e.g. Benny Morris, head of history at Hebrew U.

b) that the birth of the Jewish state of Israel is a catastrophe, then, yes.

In any case, the equivalent to “nakbah denial” is “legitimate birth of the Jewish state of Israel denial” i.e. what is HAMAS generally.

Or,

the equivalent to “nakbah denial” is “Palestinian Muslim Christian and Muslim seeking to prevent Jews’ living in the land of Israel in too great a number, discriminating or abusing those that did, denying Jews a refuge even from genocide, seeking to dispossess or eliminate Palestinian or Israeli Jews subsequently inter alia denial”.

Or,

the equivalent to “nakbah denial” is “complaining of dispossession when one was quite open in one’s desire or intention to dispossess Palestinian Jews, or worse, denial”.

Or,

the equivalent to “nakbah denial” is “complaining one lost a war to destroy the other when one sough to destroy the other denial”.

A slightly different angle on this is the fact that UNWRA is not liked by Hamas. I didn’t know that- although it is plausible.

I can see why Hamas doesn’t like UNWRA. UNWRA is supposed to be apolitical and it has a huge infrastructure with lots of money flowing in that is outside Hamas’ control. Given Hamas’ totalitarian instincts (and its greed) this would be intolerable.

I suspect that Hamas, now that it can’t garner support by bombing Israel, will try to consolidate its control within Gaza. (Indeed I believe it is already happening with the judicial system and rival groups).

Watch out for further attempts to seize control of UNWRA in Gaza.

Was there REALLY an assassination attack on John Ging and – if so – by whom?

http://enwikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ging

Any ideas, chums?

Can jobs with UNRWA be handed down from father to son, like jobs on the Indian railways?

UNRWA has been in business for longer than the lifespan of some countries – the German Democratic Republic, Katanga, Biafra, the Republic of Vietnam – if one stops to think about it.

Diss: The UNRWA was founded in 1948. It has been around longer than a majority of the nations who are members of the UN. It is the best example of a self-perpetrating bureaucracy that I can think of.