Harry's Place

Some of them dictate by telephone to various bloggers—such as Claudia Cadelo, Iván García, Reinaldo Escobar and me—news that we post on the Internet. Which makes me think that there are no bars enclosing opinion and that any regime which allows it’s dissidents to make telephone calls can’t be as bad as you are making out,Gene.I know 4 actual,real,Cubans,Gene.How many do you Know?(people you have never met face to face don’t count)

that any regime which allows it’s dissidents to make telephone calls can’t be as bad as you are making out,Gene.

If Americans or Britons were imprisoned in their countries for the same charges as the Cuban dissidents, I don’t think you’d be saying that things weren’t so bad for them if they could make phone calls.

I know 4 actual,real,Cubans,Gene.

Good for you. How many of them are in prison?

There you go, Gene. If you don’t know any Cubans, you may not judge Castro. I feel pretty ashamed, in retrospect, for opposing Apartheid without having ever met a single South African.

One of the ‘prisoners’ he shot was 14 years old. I remember that when I see his face on a Tee Shirt.
He was also a thief.

“The situation was uncomfortable for the people and for Eutimio, so I ended the problem giving him a shot with a .32 pistol in the right side of the brain, with exit orifice in the right temporal. He gasped for a little while and was dead.

Upon proceeding to remove his belongings I couldn’t get off the watch tied by a chain to his belt, and then he told me in a steady voice farther away than fear: “Yank it off, boy, what does it matter.” I did so and his possessions were now mine.”

Diary entry on the execution of Eutimio Guerra, quoted in Che Guevara : A Revolutionary Life (1997) by Jon Lee Anderson

I feel pretty ashamed, in retrospect,for not making the obvious comparison with that other detention facility in the east of Cuba.What’s it called again?

I suppose things will be better in Cuba once those crazy mobsters in Miami are back in the saddle. But some Cubans,even those who are not fans of Fidel,find that prospect pretty scary.

I suppose things will be better in Cuba once those crazy mobsters in Miami are back in the saddle. But some Cubans,even those who are not fans of Fidel,find that prospect pretty scary.

Me too. But believe it or not, Castro or the Mob are not the only possible futures for Cuba.

Me too. But believe it or not, Castro or the Mob are not the only possible futures for Cuba.
Let’s hope the future doesn’t involve the heirs of the Chicago Boys,eh Gene.The last thing the impoverished of Cuba need is to go on a diet,like those in many other parts of Latin America and the caribbean which have accepted US suzerainty.Milton Friedman walks on water!

“Blind hate against the enemy creates a forceful impulse that cracks the boundaries of natural human limitations, transforming the soldier into an effective, selective and cold killing machine. A people without hate cannot triumph against the adversary”

“In fact, if Christ himself stood in my way, I, like Nietzsche, would not hesitate to squish him like a worm”

Che Guevara

“The last thing the impoverished of Cuba need is to go on a diet,like those in many other parts of Latin America and the caribbean which have accepted US suzerainty.Milton Friedman walks on water!”

Somebody has been reading their Naomi Klein without taking into consideration that if Friedman was alive today could probably sue her for slander.

Shhh…no one is meant to know about the other prison holding Cuban political prisoners, often without trial, on the other side of the fence beyond which the damned Neocon Yankees have built Guantanamo, the Gulag of our times?

Can’t think why all those Cuban refugees were so desperate to leave the workers’ paradise that they risk their lives to escape. Can’t think why Che’s paradise finds it necessary to ban exit visas except to a few trusties & ideologues. I love the irony of all the Che defenders posting here on this site where you’re free to use your own name and you can be traced via your ESP and those who repeatedly write opinions excoriating Marxist propaganda are likely to end up in jail.

I personally don’t know any Cubans and I think that might have a tiny bit to do wlith the exit visa business I mentioned above—to say nothing of the fact that any I might meet would be bound to be fervent Castro n Che ideologues.

Bit like only being allowed to find out what the SWP is like from card carrying members or from their publications. Just imagine that.

Another great irony: the Cuba defenders who post on a blog with the proud banner: “Liberty, if it means anything means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear”. And what would happen to those who walked into the market square and began to proclaim those critiques of the regime–sorry, workers’ paradise, that their leaders do not want to hear(the very helpful Sharansky test of freedom.)

As it happens, I did know of an escaped Cuban via a young Spanish woman who was an au pair for me when my daughter was 7 and I was having to a 96 mile each way commute to work. He was hercboyfriend and living in Spain which granted him asylum. He was no mobster but a bright, independent minded young man who spoke often to her of his loathing of the sttifying impact of the required party line environment that the free food and the health care didn’t begin to make up for.

It sounded just like the endless tales of deadening mind control and conformism that my Lithuanian husband & wife friends spoke about with such passionate scorn and hatred.

In the mid 70s, I was still an unthinking Cuba fan. Radical chic and all that. I didn’t actually have the Che poster. But I really liked the image and I thought it represented a rather positive defiance, good health care and justice for the poor. I remember sitting around with friends one lunchtime when we were all enthusing about Cuba when our very much loved Head of Drama smiled wryly and said-I’d love to join in, but, you know, in Cuba, I’d be in chains.
He was an out gay, before the days when Gay Pride existed.

How many Cuban gays do any of the Cuba defenders here know? And shouldn’t they make sure they’ve spoken to one or two befor they start posting defences of the Cuban regime?

I, like most progressives in the West, admire Castro’s Cuba for the equality it has brought to Cuba’s citizens – equally poor !
(typed on a laptop sipping a latte in a yuppie coffee shop in exclusive neighbourhood)

Judy, I was struck by this headline on one of those anti-Castro websites out of Miami: Catholic Church Protests Support for Gay Rights. The Church is upset that the government are ignoring the deeply ingrained homophobia within Cuban and Latin American society and are trying to introduce laws which would legalise gay marriage.

Hey, the benefits of a real democracy! We can bash the gays because that’s what most people want.

If your Head of Drama was concerned about being persecuted for being gay in Cuba in the 1970’s he should try being ‘out’ in East Texas NOW!

Comparisions are not adequate, i feel sorry for you.

Judy,

Cuba is no workers’ paradise, it’s a kleptocratic gangster state capitalist regime. It has nothing to do with socialism, the clue being the presence of money and wages.

If Americans or Britons were imprisoned in their countries for the same charges as the Cuban dissidents ~ Gene

You don’t even know what the charges are! But let me fill you in: They were convicted of being on the US government payroll, a crime specifically prohibited under Cuban law. The evidence, which included receipts, financial satements, photographic and video evidence, was incontrovertible.

The USA, as you know, has put Cuba under an economic embargo (which includes third party sanctions) for 40 years, has organised an invasion, destabilisation and terrorism to recapture their de-facto colony. The US government refuses to extradite former CIA agent, Posada Carriles, who blew up a Cuban passenger airline in 1976. So much for the furore over the release of the terminally ill possibly innocent Lockerbie bomber.

Are there no depths to which the likes of Zin won’t stoop to?

So many people here are so good at self-parody.

The crux of the matter is that the people being talked about are journalists, they are political-prisoners not criminals, not prisoners of war, not terrorists. They harmed no one, they posed a threat to no one. They are being imprisoned so that an entire country can be denied freedom of speech, freedom of thought and so that no oligarch will ever have to be competent enough to stand up to a fully democratic election.

But if political prisoners get phone calls then the fact that they’re imprisoned for no crime is not an injustice.. and if the Americans imprison people who are actually dangerous to innocent lives on soil of the same island, well then Americans are much worse aren’t they?

Keep it up, you discredit yourselves.

Are there no depths to which the likes of Zin won’t stoop to?

I’d need a mechanical digger to reach your level.

“any regime which allows it’s dissidents to make telephone calls can’t be as bad as you are making out,Gene.I know 4 actual,real,Cubans,Gene.How many do you Know?(people you have never met face to face don’t count)”

SB,

I had initial dealings in Havana with ministers and members of the government related to sugar and nickel (Cubazucar and Cubametales) a good while back. They are every bit as sinister and ideologically obsessed as Gene’s post suggests. Cuba is a massively fucked up place, socially and economically, directly as a result of paranoid totalitarianism and the personality cult of Castro (and Guevara).

To mention Guatanamo is-I use this word for the first time-pure “whataboutery”. Right or wrong, locking up Islamist terrorist suspects is not comparable to the imprisonment of dissidents in Cuba.

Gene is spot on-Cuba has other options than Miami gangsters or dictatorship and to suggest otherwise is pretty stupid. Raoul has been a big disappointment. So far the moral and economic support from Chavez (and to a lesser extent Morales and Correa) has delayed change. But it will come. Dropping the US embargo would help immensely.

B

The crux of the matter is that the people being talked about are journalists, they are political-prisoners not criminals

So you say. However, they were convicted for being on the payroll of the USA, a country which declares Cuba to be an enemy state, and has acted accordingly.

The game is played like this: There are around three or four hundred pro-US dissidents in Cuba, and almost as many front organisations. Each dissident organisation is staffed by the same interchangeable group of people.

So on Monday you’re an independent journalist, Tuesday an independent doctor, Wednesday an independent trade unionist, etc etc. At the weekend you probably double up as an independent ballet dancer. Knowing how to dance is not a requirement of the job description.

Having created the illusion of a myriad of organisations that have supporters and roots in society (when all you’ve actually done is print a set of business cards for a set of shell companies), you then go down to the US Interests Section on the Malecon in Havana.

There, courtesy of the US taxpayer and their freedom-loving government, you will be given a 24 hour pass, money, gifts, phones, computers, advice and directions.

You can then comfortably afford to give up work, and use Uncle Sam’s shilling set up your own mini dissident franchise, staffed by another bunch of freeloaders and fakes who don’t actually do anything except pose for the Western media.

Wow! How wrong could I be? Zin, you have opened my eyes…

B xx

If the consequence is you trying to kiss me, I’d prefer you kept ‘em shut.

Zin
You sound like the Webbs in the thirties, defending the Soviet paradise. Defending the indefensible is bad for your mental health. Whatever your views on the West you must surely accept that Cubans have no freedom of expression.

“If the consequence is you trying to kiss me, I’d prefer you kept ‘em shut.”

I am in a monogamous, committed long-term relationship-sorry.

B

You don’t even know what the charges are! But let me fill you in: They were convicted of being on the US government payroll, a crime specifically prohibited under Cuban law. The evidence, which included receipts, financial satements, photographic and video evidence, was incontrovertible.

Hell, Zin. As you may recall, even Chomsky couldn’t bring himself to defend the shit you’re defending.

I am in a monogamous, committed long-term relationship-sorry

First you try to kiss me, then when I ask you to desist you tell me you don’t cheat on your partner! Shame your politics is as illogical as your chat up lines.

Zin – what is your view re Cuba giving up state control of the retail sector as reported in the FT today ?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1d344b52-9758-11de-83c5-00144feabdc0.html

The thin end of the wedge or what ?

“Shame your politics is as illogical as your chat up lines.”

You know nothing of my politics. But I do know Cuba somewhat and your defence of that regime is pretty unpleasant.

Don’t worry, the insane MMN, who gets moist thinking about dictatorships, is here now to support you in a rousing chorus of “patria o muerte.” No me digas todo lo que piensas en tu cerebro podrido…

B

Hell, Zin. As you may recall, even Chomsky couldn’t bring himself to defend the shit you’re defending.

Oh that’s a convincing rebutal, I must be wrong then.

If Americans or Britons were imprisoned in their countries for the same charges as the Cuban dissidents

You’ve just confirmed that you don’t know what the charges were. But don’t let that small detail get in the way of you writing about them.

Barad – do you think I support Cuba ? If so, why ?

Anyway Zin, any views on how the Cubans are moving towards a market economy now the senile old scumbag Fidel is out of the way ?

The thin end of the wedge or what?

What.

You really ought to study the Perfeccionamiento Empresarial system before you make such sweeping statements.

I do know one gay Cuban. He prefers to live trying to ignore politics, also when he goes back on holiday there. But he has chosen to live in Italy.

I don’t think this is an abberation of mine, but I’m convinced I’ve seen video clips of a daughter of Castro’s saying, while remaining faithful to Daddy, that there should be more liberalisation and a change in the attitude to Gays. Have any of you seen it?

People who quote che Guevara’s own words should continue to do so. They reveal the whole ghastly truth about him.

Something Cuba does have is an excellent Ballet Company. As much as I love ballet and modern dance, I think for quite different reasons of my own, it has always gone down well with fascist and and communist regimes. There is nothing they love more than to see imperious, benevolent aristocrats poncing about the stage and no Westerner can beat a Cuban (or Chinese ex red guard) male dancer at looking wildly or languidly decadent. Ballet opens a nostalgic mirror of the things they have denied themselves.

I don’t think Castro had any intention of squishing Alicia Alonso, as Guevara would have done to Jesus. One Jesus is worth two million Guevaras, and his opposition to the ills of society in the New Testament was far greater, more intense and convincing. Josh Scholar, you need not hit me over the head; I have already felt your blow. Let me be, with my atheist’s faith in Jesus.

I have the Chinese ex red guard male dancer lolling in his dressing room in princely regalia on video. – After being publicly humiliated for putting Prague in Poland, I have to be a bit careful.

Zin – should “21st Century Socialists” approve of the changes to Cuba’s economy discussed in the FT article ?

MoreMediaNonsense,

the FT article makes it clear Cuba already has a market system, just a state monopoly one, it’s simply changing from one form of market to another…

Try telling Castro worshippers like Zin that….

MMM – So far you’ve made four contributions and posted six sentences. Each of which ends with a question mark. Sorry, but under the principles of Perfeccionamiento Empresarial I’m going to have to charge you for each answer.

If on the other hand you want to debate with me, then study the issues first and resist the temptation to post more media nonsense.

MMM & Red Deathly: Cynical-right hackery embraces ultra-left idiocy.

Oh dear Zin how embarassing for you that Cuba’s moving away from Stalinism now Comrade Fidel has been sidelined.

Still, its hopefully a good thing for Cubans.

Zin will soon be left only with North Korea as a paradigm for his special brand of “21st Century Socialism”.

Here’s another link about this from Reuters so people can make up their own minds on the issue as Zin obviously finds debate on this above him :

http://www.reuters.com/article/internalReutersGenNews/idUSTRE5804EA20090901

I’m not embarrassed. Cuba was never “Stalinist”. Fidel was not sidelined – he retired. North Korea is not a paradigm for 21st Century Socialism.

Back to the clasroom, MMN. Your attempt at debate – lazy right wing media nonsense delivered in the style of an unreconstructed 1970s trot – does not inspire me to participate further.

Have a nice day.

Well I suppose we’ll all just have to make up our own minds on how much you like the welcome economic changes in Cuba then Zin.

Bye Bye

I don’t think this is an abberation of mine, but I’m convinced I’ve seen video clips of a daughter of Castro’s saying, while remaining faithful to Daddy, that there should be more liberalisation and a change in the attitude to Gays. Have any of you seen it?

See here.

From John Derbyshire

Wherever there is a jackboot stomping on a human face there will be a well-heeled Western liberal to explain that the face does, after all, enjoy free health care and 100 percent literacy. Won’t they ever learn? No, their stupidity is impenetrable. They will never learn.

Is it possible that Zin is not a real person, just a false front created by a HP poster to express such defenses of the indefensible so as to discredit left-wing apologists for Castro & Chavez?
I have stated this possibility before and am stating again in light of Zin’s ridiculus comments on this thread.

SteveGW: Unfotunately you are right. It is also fair to say that whenever there is a jackboot that is supported by the US Govt, such as Pinochet or Franco or Batista or the Greek Colonels, stomping on a human face there will be an equally well-heeled Western conservative to explain how the jackboot is saving its people from the threat of Godless Communism and is in support of Free Enterprise. Such people will never learn either.

David All – Zin is Calvin Tucker who has written for Cif and runs with his brother Noah a site called “20th Century Socialism”.

They are quite well known as ardent Chavez and Castro admirers amongst the extreme fringes of the far Left.

See here :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/calvintucker

As to why he wants to come on here and make a fool of himself is a big a mystery to me as it is to you.

Oops – should be “21st Century Socialism”…

Gene,

I think that Zin has pretty much summed up my feelings as well – the Cuban scabs are either in the pay of the USA or wish that they were.

Enough of this merry banter – wanna join in a campaign that I have just started? The call is to Free The Donkey Two – and no, I am not making this shit up. The Donkey Two are both bloggers from Azerbaijan who posted a video up that had a bloke in a donkey suit giving a press conference. For that they were lifted…

Come and play, Gene.

“Hey, the benefits of a real democracy! We can bash the gays because that’s what most people want.

If your Head of Drama was concerned about being persecuted for being gay in Cuba in the 1970’s he should try being ‘out’ in East Texas NOW!”

Is this a reference to Dallas Fort Worth which has been consistently been voted amongst the the most ‘gay friendly’ cities in the world in recent years?

Fidel Castro denounced homosexuality as “a bourgeois perversion” of course. Fidel and Che thought that gays were not ‘real men’.

We all know that ‘real men’:

- Manipulate and abuse child soldiers

- Execute teenagers

- Put people in jail for dangerous opinions.

- Beg their Russian pimps to nuke American cities.

Isn’t that right Zinm you admirer of ‘real men’ you!

Zin is Calvin Tucker who has written for Cif and runs with his brother Noah a site called “20th Century Socialism”.

In fairness to Zin, the site name recognizes the current century, if nothing else about it does.

Zin is a disgusting dictator worshiping fascist who’s contempt for the people is his major trait. Exile we all remember worse, a monster-clown known for his calls to exterminate the middle class. I don’t know if we should be more grateful he’s not a secret-police murderer, prison torturer or commandant or whether whether we should be alarmed that they allow such a clown to teach. A man like that isn’t suited for more than pumping gas or sweeping floors.

Thanks Gene, I saw the clip of Castro’s daughter, but I don’t understand Spanish. I’ve heard her speak in English. But I have gathered sufficient very positive info about her.

Why do some of the letters above suggest that gays are illegal in Cuba? They aren’t – any longer. People who want to change their gender are operated gratis. If it weren’t for the bad news about the treatment of dissidents I would suspend my judgement on Cuba unti I knew more. The Cubans held a big anti-homophobia demonstration.

This is inconceivable, but if I were a more benevolent Castro, I would institute a shared freedom of the press. “We share the newspapers, you say what you like and we’ll answer you with our own views, column next to column. Freedom of debate. A good step inthe direction of democracy with out becoming a pseudo-democracy.That the regime there is afraid of American values being forced on them, is understandable, unbridled capitalism immediately, elimination of the welfare system and so on. As happened disastrously when the communist regimes collapsed. The commandment from the USA was free enterprise as of tomorrow, with no time to adjust. Essentially they were thrown into the hands of corruption, large mafia organisations and thrown back on reactionary Putins. However admirable the USA my be among nations, it is NOT a paragon of virtues. Over confidence is a sign of uncertainty.

Thanks Gene, I saw the clip of Castro’s daughter, but I don’t understand Spanish. I’ve heard her speak in English. But I have gathered sufficient very positive info about her.

Why do some of the letters above suggest that gays are illegal in Cuba? They aren’t – any longer. People who want to change their gender are operated gratis. If it weren’t for the bad news about the treatment of dissidents I would suspend my judgement on Cuba unti I knew more. The Cubans held a big anti-homophobia demonstration.

The point that Yoani Sanchez makes to Mariela Castro is that if sexual diversity can be expressed openly, why can’t diverse political opinions be expressed with equal openness. Ms. Castro offers no real response.

Mesquito
“There you go, Gene. If you don’t know any Cubans, you may not judge Castro. I feel pretty ashamed, in retrospect, for opposing Apartheid without having ever met a single South African”

When I first read this I was too astounded to believe my eyes. But on rereading I saw the words in all their raw ignorance. Mesquito, I’m not attacking you personally, some of your thoughts which slipped out unknowingly, I believe.

You didn’t have to know a Russian to know all the truth about Stalin’s Soviet Union. I didn’t have to know Chinese people before realising the Mao tse Tung and the gang of fou were a disaster. Apart from anything, these people only had to speak for themselves to reveal all. There was more than sufficient information about these The reality is much worse than you can even imagine.

You are ashamed of criticising Apartheid without out knowing South Africans. By implication you mean white South Africans. You needn’t have been ashamed as you knew more than enough. I am a South African, and I don’t think you have the slightest inkling of how apartheid worked and how horrific it was. I have written about this before, and even the info you can dig up on the Internet doesn’t come near the every day horrors of the unworkable system.

When I studied French at a shool in Paris, there were students from all nations including South Africa, white ones, who went around saying, “Oh, but you don’t really understand the situation because you don’t live there.” These white piss-arses hated me, because I ruined all such defences by saying, ‘You don’t have to go to S.A. to understand. The situation is much worse than you imagine it,’ and then I proceded to give detailed accounts of how Apartheid was implemented and functioned. I did this debunlking systematically.

Mesquito, do you think you should have met some black S. Africans or Namibians to discuss Apartheid with?

“There you go, Gene. If you don’t know any Cubans, you may not judge Castro. I feel pretty ashamed, in retrospect, for opposing Apartheid without having ever met a single South African”

When I first read this I was too astounded to believe my eyes. But on rereading I saw the words in all their raw ignorance. Mesquito, I’m not attacking you personally, some of your thoughts which slipped out unknowingly, I believe.

I’m quite sure Mesquito was being sarcastic. Yet another example of the dangers of sarcasm on the internet. Unfortunately some of us (myself included) can’t resist.

MMM: Thanks for the information about Zin. He is like Honecker in the fall of 1989 just weeks before the Wall came down, addressing the East German public on TV during the “celebrations” of the 40th anniversary of the GDR and telling the people how great things were in the German People’s Socialist Paradise. Both are so far into self-parody that it is impossible to for anyone else to satirize them further.

Cuba hasn’t completed the transition to state capitalism, it isn’t even close. When Fidel seemed to be about to die, there was a rush by Brazilian and Spanish companies to hire people with Cuban contacts as facilitators (e.g., José Dirceu, of mensalão fame, who spent time training as guerrilla there), in the anticipation of some type of Chinese-like opening Raul has been hinting at for some time. But the opening never came, either because of Fidel’s physical and ideological obduracy, or because Raul wasn’t too keen for some reason.

Also, Raul is reportedly wanting to cut on their dependence on Venezuela (especially since oil prices dropped), and has been cozying up to Brazil and others.

In any case, there has been some moves to liberalize the economy, but only on the margins, but not nearly as much as anticipated, by ordinary Cubans, by prospective foreign investors, and (reportedly) by the Cuban military, who have set themselves in a position to make big $$$s when the opening comes.

I love the irony of all the Che defenders posting here on this site where you’re free to use your own name and you can be traced via your ESP and those who repeatedly write opinions excoriating Marxist propaganda are likely to end up in jail.

Indeed, even the Chinese have freedoms to use the internet that the Cubans can only dream of.

The evidence, which included receipts, financial satements, photographic and video evidence, was incontrovertible.

Presumably because Cuba lacks the legal system fair enough to allow them to be controverted.

The USA, as you know, has put Cuba under an economic embargo

In the case of Iran, Serbia and Sudan, we are told by ‘anti-imperialists’ of the critical importance of the sovereign right of nations to take the positions they want. It is the sovereign right of the USA to place an embargo on whichever country it wishes, just as countries imposed embargoes on apartheid South Africa. It was also the sovereign right of Cuba to earn prices well above market value and turn itself thereby into a dependent of the USSR. There are also many countries in the world who don’t have an embargo against Cuba. The US embargo is neither here nor there.

You’ve just confirmed that you don’t know what the charges were.

But you told us they “were convicted of being on the US government payroll.” Being on the payroll of a foreign government, even the Iranian government, is not an offence in Britain or the States.

North Korea is not a paradigm for 21st Century Socialism.

Pity nobody told the Cubans.

Bruno Mota, it would be very interesting, to say the least, if Cuba were to stop buying Venezuela’s oil in favor of buying it, at least in part, from Brazil; particularly since Brazil is the USA’s leading ally in Latin America.

Gene, Felix, Mesquito: The danger of being taking seriously when you are joking, using satire, sarcasm, etec. is why I using write the appropriate label at the end of any unserious comment.

About Cuba: Get the feeling that the current situation is a lot like Spain in the last years of Franco, with Cubans, both at home and in Exile waiting for the Castro brothers aka the Two Old SOBs to die before anyone is going to make any major political moves.

*waiting for Castro(s) to die*

In that one short phrase you reveal your total ignorance that the revolution was the culmination of centuries of struggle against Spanish colonialism and US imperialism.

I am reminded of a book called ‘Castro’s Final Hour’…

… published in 1992

What will happen when Fidel and Raul die?

Nothing will happen, as you shall see to your shock and dismay in due course. Cubans are no more going to pour onto the streets of Havana to denounce the last two remaining leaders of the revolution, than South Africans are going to denounce Mandela after his death.

“What will happen when Fidel and Raul die?

Nothing will happen”

Zin, no one will know until it happens but this is nonsense (and wishful thinking on your part) IMO.

Have you been to Cuba, talked to many ordinary (and high up in the government) Cubans living in and out of there? I have and I am pretty sure that once the Castros are dead the US embargo will be quickly dropped and Cuba will eventually become a democratic country.

The living conditions are terrible for anyone not close to the tourist industry or army or government. The great Cuban health service is something of a myth to say the least, unless you pay a great deal in bribes, as for most other things there.

Most ordinary Cubans I met in Cuba were obsessed with US culture, capitalism (money-making) and baseball. If you think they are a nation of happy Communist ideologues, you are deluded.

The only Cubans I heard praising Castro’s revolution were people like the fat but friendly tourism minister living in an immaculate, white stuccoed Spanish villa in Havana (unlike the collapsing slums many ordinary people live in) and others I met at a cocktail party once at the Cuban ambassador’s residence in St John’s Wood. Nothing like seeing dyed-in-the-wool communists enjoying being attended by flunkies serving them Cuba Libres as they smoked fat cigars!

I am persistently amused and horrified by starry-eyed Castro fans such as yourself (and the aristocratic Harriet Harman and many of the Labour left). What you support is a nasty dictatorship that oppresses its population.

B

Nothing will happen, as you shall see to your shock and dismay in due course.

You misspelled “utter indifference”

Castro made his health system the envy of the world just with a Sandpiper’s eight track cassette and revolutionary fervour! His doctors brought the miracle drug Aspirino to the Angola bush, so there!

Gene and others, I die and learn thanks also to HP.
That was a half joke.

No opposition poured into the streets of Pyongyang when the Great Leader died. Therefore they must have been quite happy with the regime.

Anyway Noah handles the North Korea PR, Zin is in head apologist and bootlicker for Cuba and Venezuela. Lets not mix up the accounts.

Zin should be included in the dictionary as an example of the word dillusional.

Being on the payroll of a foreign government, even the Iranian government, is not an offence in Britain or the States

It is in Cuba, because they are under threat from from a superpower which after having lost its grip in 1959 has spent the next 50 years engaged in terrorism, invasion, destabilisation and economic embargo.

Zin is not dilusional, he has simply lost all touch with reality.

It is in Cuba, because they are under threat from from a superpower which after having lost its grip in 1959 has spent the next 50 years engaged in terrorism, invasion, destabilisation and economic embargo.

So Cuba’s no different from Hoxha’s Albania then. Or, if you believed them, the East Germans. I knew the “anti-fascist protection wall” had to have some purpose.

terrorism, invasion, destabilisation and economic embargo.

‘Anti-imperialists’ are, of course, very much in favour of all of these things when it comes to countries, democracies included, which they don’t like.

A guy who spent a lot of time researching education in Cuba and Brazil once told me that Cuban high school teachers were usually better trained and better motivated that their Brazilian counterparts (at least in the state sector). He also added that communism in general and the Cuban regime in particular were far more popular in the latter group than in the former.

That is understandable Bruno Mota, since Brazil, unlike Cuba, has never known the “blessings” of communism.

I agree DavidAll. I just find people who exhort others to enjoy life under some dictatorship or another while living themselves under the very system they excoriate particularly funny.