Harry's Place

The way out for counterknowledge is. to be in counterknowledge.

It’s reassuring that only one in twenty Obama voters in New Jersey thinks he’s the Antichrist.

As you well know Gene I do follow the USA through the prism of radio and I’ve even been lucky enough to catch Glenn Beck on TV – expecially his expose of Acorn.

Its worth watching Beck because now the companies have dropped their ad sponsorhip the program flows. I’ll ignore some of Beck’s eccentricities for the fact that I actually like his animated style.

What I believe is happening is that these wacky ideas about Birth Certificate or the Religious Right nutters who insist he’s the anti-Christ are actually fading in signifigance and being replaced by real political arguments – as it should be.

I honestly think Obama is losing because he actually doesn’t have President stature. He hasn’t got out of campaign mode. He’s good at rousing an audience (picked). That then gets played by the media hacks and is supposed to create an impression. But its not working. The jive I get is that people are all Obamaed out by so many tv appearances.

Isn’t it this weekend he’s doing all the major networks and Letterman – except Fox news? It seems from polling that Obama’s figures go down the more he’s on tv.

The message about Obama Marxism/Socialism is also counting against him. Van Jones resigning during Labor Day, murmerings about the Czars as unelected people with power is emerging too. They are now pushing the Socialist/Marxist thing at the rallies. Obama has not mounted any defence against the claims. How can he? As a Community Organiser, now compared with the exp[oses of Acorn he hasn’t anywhere to go. If he stamps his foot down over healthcare there will be a genuine revolt of American people. It might cause a real fracture.

Nirther and Anti-Christ were holding tactics. I think we are into the real thing now. The Obama substance.

Heard that Obama’s two examples in his Healthcare Speech to the houses were not actually as he stated. The unfortunate mastectomy patient clearly falsified several pre-conditions to get healthcare. The other case I didn’t catch all of it due to internet failure on my radio.

Oh, the troofers are upset because Obama ignored Sheen’s letter to him about opening 9/11 enquiry. Oh dear, you don’t want to upset Alex Jones!!

Well that’s the anti-ObamaShmaltz broadcast for today!

For group polarization see the piece by the Fink:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel_finkelstein/article6836025.ece

“Being in a group pushes individuals to extremes. But moderates need not despair, group think can work to their advantage.”

And here’s the possible anti-Christ himself in good fighting form before the AFL-CIO convention in Pittsburgh:

I listened to the first minute and realised the whole speech consisted of “Thank You!”

LOL!!!

These polls don’t seem all that reliable to me. What is the margin of error? In any case it’s only in New Jersey and so isn’t representative of the entire USA.

BTW, OT but I have a statistic related question – the weather. Israel is a very small state, and yet temperatures can vary in different regions by 10 degrees (Celsius) and humidity by 10-20%. So why does the US weatherman even bother when he only talks about major cities? His accuracy isn’t that good probably. And why do news channels like the BBC present global weather as it’s accuracy is so low?

1 min 27 secs to be precise.

So why does the US weatherman even bother when he only talks about major cities?

Because that’s where the people watching tend to live?

Since when did New Jersey represent all of America?

Oh please…..

Obama is sweating. This ACORN thing will bite.
It bit the media also. They refused to cover it until the last video when an ACORN employee admitted to pre-meditated murder on camera.
As if readiness to assist child prostitution wasn’t enough.
What a joke.

One Obama anti-Christ claim that got a lot coverage recently concerned the suggestion that Jesus had stated “I saw Satan as Barack Obama” – the full crackpot theory is discussed here.

Yes, must be very comforting Gene, to think that current activism in US politics is polarized between revolving-eyed truther-Obama-is-antichrist Republican fanatics and good-hearted, public-spirited utterly rational pursuers of the common good like yourself and your fellow dedicated Democrat supporters of President Obama who think he’s so wonderful you find it necessary to greet his latest speech with no less than 47 standing ovations. That’s more than they ever managed at the height of the Personality Cult era in the Soviet Union days. Perhaps you can explain what particular 47 things he said that *each* merited a standing ovation.

I listened in a state of exasperated bemusement to BBCR4’s Today programme t

What do folks here think about Jiminy Carter’s charge that the opposition to the health care plan is all about cos Obama is black. Would that Republican have screamed liar like that to a white president?

Jimmy Carter is a loathesome, lying, vain, squalid, arrogant, putrid, oozing maggot.

I generally tend to be skeptical about poll results like this, and here I think there is an obvious problem with the questions. A large chunk of intelligent but partisan democrats accept that Al Queda did 9/11 but blame the Bush administration for not putting the pieces together and stopping it. Many of these people could (and judging from TPM comments, would) answer “yes” to the question about the Bush administration having prior knowledge without thinking for a moment they actually wanted it to occur or believing in controlled demolitions, Mossad or the Bavarian Illuminati being involved. Similarly, a chunk of religious people out there believe the anti-christ is imminent and will appear as a charismatic world leader. They could answer “possibly” to Obama being the anti-christ without having any particular animus to Obama per se based solely on the logic of their theological beliefs.

I think if you asked “did the Bush administration orchestrate and desire 9/11?” and “do you think, based on his behavior and politics, Obama is more likely to be the antichrist than other world leader” you would get a more accurate crazy count.

Thant being said, the polarization in the US is deeply unpleasant.

Is it wrong to wish that Judy’s protestation that right wingers like herself aren’t nuts didn’t sound nuts?

Don’t you think comparing Obama to Stalin and Gene and other Democrats support of Obama’s policies to the “Cult of personality era of the Soviet Union” and to 47 standing ovations, and then to sarcastically reference the obligatory cheer-leaderism of an actual totalitarian state sounds every bit as wacked out calling Obama the antichrist?

Check yourself before you wreck yourself girl, as Michelle Obama might have said once ;)

Gene, I’ve been saying for years that the old “left/right” polarity is irrelevant or misleading.

The poles we are increasingly dealing with are moderate vs. extremist.

Of course there are the old political tinges, but often it’s difficult to tell whether an extremist is far right or far left (or even Islamist). Witness the StWC.

Moderates also can be confused – a social liberal can be a fiscal conservative.

Doctrine is out the window. All we have to make sure of is that an incumbant government isn’t extremist and doesn’t involve extremist nutcases.

Exit Acorn. Exist Van Jones. Exit Harriet Harman. Exit Ken Livingstone.

RE: I listened to the first minute and realised the whole speech….

What an intelligent remark. Kinda like, I read the cover and realized the whole book was….
or
I watched the first 5 minutes and realized the entire film was…..

In fact, you couldn’t “realize” anything about the rest of the speech if you didn’t actually hear it.

Blogger Jane Galt started Galt’s law (at least I think it was her).

“The Party in Power is Arrogant. The Party out of Power is Insane.”

File under “Duh.”

Jimmy Carter is a loathesome, lying, vain, squalid, arrogant, putrid, oozing maggot.

Please. This is neither the time nor the place to compliment Dhimmy Carter.

The ACORN videos show that the MSM is been beaten by the bloggers at investigative journalism. This video shows how ACRON help a pimp, a prostitute get government money, to cheat their taxes and get child payments for the underaged prostitutes they are going to illegally bring in from El Salvador.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UOL9Jh61S8

Daud calls all Obama doubters racists.

Carter calls all Republicans and most Independents racists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBtG8UqBbOg

The House will pass any legislation for health care, except that which WILL cut the price; Tort reform and inter-State Insurance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaMj-WUC-aE

Expect Obama’s poll ratings to fall by about 5%

In fact, you couldn’t “realize” anything about the rest of the speech if you didn’t actually hear it.

Whenever Gene posts a 30-minute Obama speech, I feel bound by common courtesy to watch the whole goddam thing.

Whenever Gene posts a 30-minute Obama speech, I feel bound by common courtesy to watch the whole goddam thing.

Above and beyond, mesquito, above and beyond.

Sorry to disapoint all the anti-Obama folks, but from the Opinion Polls taken after his speech before Congress last week, Obama has rebounded some is and is now back over 50%, i.e. roughly the level of the popular vote he won in last November’s Election.

As for ACORN, believe folks are making too much of a few bad employees that do not represent the mass of ACORN workers. Also the anti-Obama folks fail to realize that 80% of Americans have no idea of what ACORN is and if asked will compare them to Walnuts!

Memo to all politically activists of whatever stripe: Remember most people could not care less about the fine ins and outs of political policy or groups concerned like ACORN; being sane and not being totally addicted to politics they have better things like sports or America’s next Idol to be interested in, thank God.

“As for ACORN, believe folks are making too much of a few bad employees that do not represent the mass of ACORN workers.”

And yet, every reach into the barrel turns up bad apples.

girondistnyc

That also applies to “birthers”.

Obama never produced a birth certificate. Only an affadavit from a Hawaii official stating he (the official) saw the original paper.

And contradictory reports surfaced regarding his exact place and time of birth. All of which were inside the US BTW.

He has changed his name 2 times during his life. Bary Durham, Barry Sohoreto and Barack Hussein Obama.
So it is rather predictable that theories float around about his birth and identity. Anybody in public life having gone through that many name changes will face suspicion.

So speculation is abound.
But just because some dare mention this, they are lobbed in with the nuts who believe he is from Kenya, Indonesia or Pakistan and is some Muslim impostor. He was registered as Muslim when in school in Indonesia, but all who s fathers are Muslim are assumed Muslim in a Muslim country.
He did attend an antisemitic pro-Muslim Liberationist Church for 20 years. That is true and was exposed.
This story originated in the Hillary campaign and was pursued by democrats in the courts. Now it has taken a life of its own.
Even Obama supporter, progressive democrat Camilla Paglia alluded to the fact that Obama s birth story was fishy. She wrote about that in Salon about a year ago.

There are about 25% of Americans who believe 911 was an inside job.
There are about the same proportion who deny the holocaust in whole or in part. In essence there are about 1/4 of stupid people.
But scary polls have been coming out of Canada also regarding 911. As well as France, the UK and Europe. Unfortunately this is a sad reality and says a lot about the level of intellectual sophistication of many of us.

Still, not that I want to pick theories, but having doubts about 1 single piece of paper as compared to an event millions saw on TV, thousands saw on location, and seen admitted and celebrated by the perpetrators and their supporters is far worse than the birth controversy. Obama will be gone in 4 years(or 8 if there s a miracle). He will be forgotten. But 911 history will remain forever. And it seems protecting the truth will require an effort for years to come. That is sad.

Where was the explicit reference to child prostitution in the ACORN video? Or are we just supposed to take the prostitute’s/right-winger’s word for it? Even if it does refer to prostitution, and I didn’t get that, what unConstitutional, communist motives do you have for questioning people’s right to use the free market to earn their living the American Way? And if you are some kind of Marxist Nazi chicken-sacrificer who believes that Kenya is part of the USA, why do illegal businesses not owe money to the IRS?

Would that Republican have screamed liar like that to a white president?

This is a multiracial thing. Look at all those colored people in DC claiming their country back on 9/12. Why would anyone base rumors on Obama’s relationships with Africa and Santeria?

Anti-Christ were holding tactics

You must be new to right-wing radio.

Where was the explicit reference to child prostitution in the ACORN video?
hasan pristhina:

In each of the videos, taped in Baltimore, Washington D.C., Brooklyn, and San Bernadino, the “pimp” and “prostitute” make very clear their intention to bring into the country El Salvadoran girls “ages 13-15″ in order to set up a child-sex den. That’s the devastating part that was omitted by the New York Times.

It’s all here:
http://biggovernment.com/

Nirther and Anti-Christ were holding tactics.

I love the idea of outrageous lies and fantasies as acceptable(?) “holding tactics.”

Here’s your approval rating, David: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Steadily sinking.

And Acorn is not ‘a few bad employees’. It’s the same behavior showing up in a geographically disparate organization. Ergo, it’s institutional.

But whatever. It’s all racism. So Jimmeh tells me.

And Hasan, seriously. Watch the videos, you clod! Is that so difficult?

Nirther and Anti-Christ were holding tactics.

I love the idea of outrageous lies and fantasies as acceptable(?) “holding tactics.”

A bad choice of words on my part. I really mean that until Obama had established a pattern as Presdient then the anti-Obama’s didn’t have a lot to go with. Of course Hannity, Limbaugh and the other jocks did go on about Obama’s Marxist background and associations but they were seen as “in the past” “he’s different today”. In the euphoria of Obama-Worship you could have said he killed people when he was 20 and it wouldn’t have mattered.

I haven’t heard much “anti-Christ” talk but did catch a really serious religious nut on Freedom Thought Radio who called Obama a “homo” (apologies) and went on about some guy who made claims of a sex and drugs event with Obama in the back of a limo. Being curious I thought I’d check it out and came across his press conference. If you ever want to have a Friday laugh you should highlight it because it ranks with the Sun’s “Elvis found alive on the moon”. In fact, it could be a comedy sketch. If you ever wanted to discredit Obama conspiracists THIS is the one you should choose IMHO.

While googling – I can’t remember where -I found a statement saying that Obama was determined to push through his health care program even if the effort led to his failure. If this is true – and it seems to be, we would atlast have a politician who stands for what he really believes in and doesn’t look at popularity and votes.

I watched and listened to the whole speech and was very impressed. I watched his face carefully and it showed something rare: a politician with an honest face. – Notice that Obama talked about regenerating the middle class, not the working class: he wants the workers to become middle class.

Using the word “Marxism” is a scare tactic and nothing more. Everyone should wish for the (improved) well-being of every person in their country. You don’t have to be a Marxist to desire this.

I have always thought a politician should look worried about any suffering going on in his country. Obama’s face does show this concern.

Notice that Obama talked about regenerating the middle class, not the working class: he wants the workers to become middle class. not sure about that Felix. My impression of political speeches over the past couple of years is that middle class is used as a kind of euphemism, a substitute for working class because no one dares use the term working class for fear of being seen to be heaven forbid socialist.

Amie, Americans no longer use the phrase “working class”

In our somewhat impoverished discourse (in which labor issues no longer exist) there are only three classes, ‘poor’, ‘middle class’ and ‘wealthy’. Occasionally someone will mention the ‘upper middle class’ which I suppose means wealthy but not able to buy your own island or football team.

The only explicit references I heard to child prostitution were by the people doing the “sting.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbL-dDMpbSw

And if you had been to a top dollar tax adviser, do you really think they would have done anything different? Read the financial papers.

The only explicit references I heard to child prostitution were by the people doing the “sting.”

That’s the point of a sting. When the stingers brought up their desire to import child sex slaves, the ACORN folks went right along. The latest tape has what purports to be an ACORN worker in San Diego offering to assist in the smuggling of child sex-slaves through Tijuana.

Annie
Excuse me, but your insight seems a bit daft to me. Obama DID talk about the working class and trade unions in his speech. But who in their right minds would regard the working class, poverty and suffering, especially a USA president, as an ideal? Obama wants to extend the privilege of well-being, and where else could that go except in the direction of the middle class? There is no other class now really. Most working class people have already become middle class, more or less poor depending on the whims of unbridled capitalism and its corruptions.

There is no indication that Obama wants to topple capitalist enterprise. He is simply talking about a humane society. My impression is that the word ‘humane’ arouses disgust and fury in hardliners who prefer a bulldozing logic.

I once wrote to another literary blog, saying that, but for the welfare system, I wouldn’t be sitting at the computer writing to them. The answer from a headmistressy moderator was that I shouild kindly stop writing about the horrors of the welfare system and have the cheek to distrust ‘our’ polìticians (ie. Palin).

You come close to the anti-christ and medecine man conspiracies. If Obama says “middle class” this is a code word for some horrible OTHER THING. The president is eminently middle class himself.

An anecdote to lighten the discussion:
I was considered a witch doctor myself by blacks in Namibia. A worker on our farm was horrified because his nose was bleeding. I said, “Don’t worry! Come and stand under the shade of this tree, and wait for me.” I went and fetched some damp clothes and put these under his arms ( as taught to do by my mother). His nose stopped bleeding and as of then I was regarded with awe by the blacks. Some were terrified because an ‘evil eye’ had been cast on them. I did a little ceremony, like putting stones in a circle and uttering some strange words and told them the evil eye had now been defeated.

Obama is trying to defeat the evil eyes in America.

Felix: My impression that the term working class has disappeared from American discourse, appears to be confirmed by Josh Scholar, who is American. This, however is contradicted by your referencing Obama’s use of the term working class. I didn’t hear his speech, but if I had would have pricked my ears up as it use is so unusual in the USA.

I watched and listened to the whole speech and was very impressed. I watched his face carefully and it showed something rare: a politician with an honest face.

You mean like Bernie Madoff (ok not a politician but an honest looking face), The Kennedy’s, Clinton, Dhimmi Carter…..

Sincerity and honesty can be easily learnt and projected. All con men, all liars convinced someone they weren’t.

Felix: My impression that the term working class has disappeared from American discourse, appears to be confirmed by Josh Scholar, who is American. This, however is contradicted by your referencing Obama’s use of the term working class. I didn’t hear his speech, but if I had would have pricked my ears up as it use is so unusual in the USA.

I didn’t hear Obama use the phrase “working class” in the speech, although I might have missed it. But it’s far more common to hear politicians (and even labor leaders) in the US speak in terms of the middle class, or “working people,” “working men and women,” and “working families.”

That’s the point of a sting.

No, what you’re describing is entrapment. A sting is where people voluntarily do something illegal when it’s explicitly explained to them, e.g. buying cocaine from a federal officer.

An honest Democrat, and not a blinkered ideologue, would be appalled at Acorn and not seek to make excuses.

It’s OK by the way- Jon Stewart savaged Acorn and the media’s shameful attempts to conceal this story two days ago. It’s kosher to go after them now and admit that what went on in those offices was deeply disturbing, whatever your political stance.

Arfur

“Sincerity and honesty can be easily learnt and projected. All con men, all liars convinced someone they weren’t.”

I know this only too well from experience – well not from advertisers who are unable to hide the fact that they are lying – but in general. I can’t expect anyone to believe this, but I have a pronounced sixth sense for false sincerity and con men, and so far I have never been wrong. (I could recount many examples). I have never been conned.

To consider the whole of Obama’s speech as a deliberate excersise in conning and false sincerity seems a bit over the top, especially as he knows what risks he is taking and that there is quite massive opposition to his plans. – I still hope he won’t be assassinated. -

Gene, you are right. I was remembering wrongly and Obama did talk about the working people.