Harry's Place

Chilling, but predictable.

The short story is this. It is pretty much all of them.

You don’t say!

They’ll duck and deflect this, as successfully as the Mehdi Hasan did his disgraceful references to us infidels. Too many in the left-leaning establishment have abysmally low expectations of muslims and will let all this slide too.

To start with, any attempt to criticise Islam as containing (a) substantial violent elements and (b) a larger body of fellow-travellers was met with cries of racism. Then subtle arguments were erected to distinguish between varying strands of Islamism, so that the distaste for violence could be laid at the door of certain carefully demarcated groups. It increasingly appears that although it is obviously ludicrous to argue that all public figures from the Islamic organisations are supporters of terrorism, so many of them are that it’s impossible to do business with any `mainstream’ terrorist organisation without tripping over people who get a sexual frisson from a stream of 5.7×28 killing soldiers in Texas.

The left has form on this, of course. Terrorism, like assassination, is how nobodies makes themselves into somebodies. There’s no better place to find nobodies than amongst the factions of the British left, so that they get excited by Islamic terror, just as they did over IRA terror a generation ago, is no surprise. That doesn’t make it any better, though.

You know I was trying to figure out what is going on re the British political establishment and I can come up with only a mere handful of scenarios to explain this apparent Lunacy:

1) It is a cunning plan hatched by the ‘Sir Humphrey’ establishment to ensure that Labour never get elected into office again, ever.

2) It is a masterpiece of intelligence, they are playing these Islamist supporting sycophants so as to uncover the entire subversive network that has taken root in the UK.

3) They are ALL imbeciles who spend their entire time stoned on acid.

4) The entire civil service and their political ‘masters’ are really Marxists and these acts of unbelievable incompetence are a cunning plan to control the country.

5) The entire civil service and their political ‘masters’ in the UK have simply gone insane.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, lets recap.

Option 1) I don’t believe it’s a cunning plan to ensure Labour never get elected into office again because Labour are perfectly capable of ensuring that outcome themselves.

Option 2) I don’t believe the establishment are that clever, no matter how many oxbridge Firsts they hold.

Option 3) They can’t ALL be imbeciles, surely.

Option 4) They already control the country and have done for centuries, so that explanation is a non starter, isn’t it?

Option 5) They have all gone Insane? Well, that would certainly explain a few things for me.

I’m a bit disappointed that I cannot access Anwar al-Awlaki’s blog. It seems to be down at the moment.

One other thing HP, this weeks banner, with that smiling Islamist maniac is really starting to bug me.

Just saying like.

What’s particularly outrageous is that this Azad Ali character seems to be funded by the taxpayer – how much public money is he getting shovelled in “allowances”, “grants”, “expenses” etc for all these noble duties that you have listed??? Please keep digging.

If he doesn’t now completely condemn Awlaki (after the outrageous remarks) and distance himself from them, then action should be taken.

Action should be taken, but won’t be.

What happened to that FO guy who shouted “fucking jews” in the gym, btw?

I am an admirer of Lucy Lips posts and grateful for the diligence in researching background which mainstream media ignores. But I do find it questionable to describe a suspect as “this traitor”. Travelling in the U.S.A. recently I was shocked at a routine news report of an incident in which the guilt of the suspect was ‘demonstrated’ on air with copious detail, motive explored and penalty all but fixed, within hours of an arrest. The execution date only was left vague. The same thing happens here and the suspect(s) would go free and have done so.

A.O.S. I think the principle is ‘divide and rule’; or ‘better the devil you know’. It does however set the question: Who whom? This serial meddler demonstrates to me the folly of Kim Howell’s recent statement that ‘we’ can resist extremism by staying at home. I fancy not.

(By-the-way – I agree about the banner. Please consider a prompt change. Also, A.O.S. Can’t you consider a change also? Something a bit less of a mouthful? – ‘Manders’? Half a mo … No, not that one.)

Hasan wrote that “Fighting to establish an Islamic State to please God, even by force, is condoned by the Islam,” (in a presentation to
his collegues,- according to the Washington Post).

So well meaning people stating over and over again, that such
behaviour is “actually” against Islam, clearly will not help.

From commentarymagazine (Contentions):
Dorothy Rabinowitz on Fort Hood and the ensuing self-delusion: “What is hard to ignore, now, is the growing derangement on all matters involving terrorism and Muslim sensitivities. Its chief symptoms: a palpitating fear of discomfiting facts and a willingness to discard those facts and embrace the richest possible variety of ludicrous theories as to the motives behind an act of Islamic terrorism. All this we have seen before but never in such naked form. The days following the Fort Hood rampage have told us more than we want to know, perhaps, about the depth and reach of this epidemic.”

“Also, A.O.S. Can’t you consider a change also? Something a bit less of a mouthful?”

It is a tactic Larkers, most people can’t be bothered typing out the name so they just ignore me, I get an easy ride.

I will consider it however.

One other thing HP, this weeks banner, with that smiling Islamist maniac is really starting to bug me.

I keep my browser windows about 800 px wide, so I had no idea what this was about until I scrolled up and over.

The “pattern” continues…..

Live long…

Its chief symptoms: a palpitating fear of discomfiting facts and a willingness to discard those facts and embrace the richest possible variety of ludicrous theories as to the motives behind an act of Islamic terrorism. All this we have seen before but never in such naked form. The days following the Fort Hood rampage have told us more than we want to know, perhaps, about the depth and reach of this epidemic.”

And in the meantime Barak Obama is still trying to get a handle on Hasan’s true motives. He’s pondered the “tragedy” and meditated on it, but still can,t grasp what drove Hasan to commit mass murder. I suggest he ask a Whitehouse aid…like the blue-collar guy working down in the boiler room.

The continued and even the intensification of the denial of radical Islam’s nature, goals and methods has reached pathological levels that are truly frightening.

Will Islamists have to take out a major Western capital with an WMD before Western elites snap out of it?

I really liked last week’s banner

Anaximander, leave the shoes out of it, but the classicist pre-Socratic theme is great and always reminds me of this from Xenophanes, one of Anaximander’s students:

The Ethiops say that their gods are flat-nosed and black, while the Thracians say that theirs have blue eyes and red hair.

Yet if cattle or horses or lions had hands and could draw,
And could sculpt like men, then the horses would draw their gods like horses, and cattle like cattle.

And each they would shape bodies of gods in the likeness, each kind, of their own.

And this, which is even better, on party, or papal, infallibility:

No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen to say it by chance, they would not even known they had done so.

Xenophanes would have been quite at home discussing religion and politics on HP.

John P: I remind you that in the words of your fellow conservative, that simple minded gun-slinging Texas cowboy, George Bush Jr, after 3,000 people were murdered on 9/11 by Islamist Terrorists, Islam is “a religion of peace”!

What will happen when ordinary people decide they have had enough of the Establishment’s rationlizations of Islamist Terror and decide to take action on their own? While I am not sure about Western Europe, given the history of vigilantism here in the US, I am afraid it will be both nasty and indescriminate.

Tevya: Thanks for the quotes. They really sum up a lot of philosphical and religious discussions.

Get serious folks. The weekly “nutter goes off and kills (6, 12, 18, whatever) people happens to be a Muslim this time and you pin it on Islamic “terrorism?” For terrorism, i think it’s rather obvious you need more than a lone gunman; was he organized, part of a group with a plan, did anybody8 send him? If not, he’s just another American nutjob, this time with a Muslim name and the muslim religion.

Now had he committed a true act of terror, like organizing a suicide bombing or something else, that would be a different story. But this is just Columbine, Killeen or countless other American tragedies with a muslim twist.

Now go on, tell me how i’m appeasing Islam. I’m not. I write about and battle Islamism all the time. I think terrorists should be shown no mercy. I think this guy also should be shown no mercy, but the fact is, his actions have far more in common with the typical American gun-nut than they do with Islamic terrorism.

It is pretty much all of them.

Oh, boy. So, after all the spin from our elite runs down, it would seem that the anti-Muslim bigots, Mad Mel and the EDL were right and the bien pensants and UAF were wrong. Big surprise there.

A picture is emerging from all the dots – Islam is not a faith, it is a weapon, and the leaders can’t wait to wield it, while the “moderates” will keep their heads down until the leaders are in control, when we shall all see the mask drop and Islam red in tooth and claw. This will not affect any European country as a whole, but it will affect enclaves, like the bainlieus of Paris, Rotterdam, Malmo and Luton.

It seems on the ME scene that the One’s attempts at placating the eternally truculent are about to experience some serious blowback. Abbas looks set to resign, the Palestinians are set to dissolve the PA (to replace it with god-knows-what), and the Arab world is polarising – more than usual. Al Jazeera pumps out more and more hate and lies, and the Mullahs are drooling over their bomb. I cannot see how all this can continue without a pretty massive bust-up in a fairly short time. Then perhaps some issues will get clarified, some intellectual heavyweights in the West will break their long silence and the BBC position will be exposed as the most myopic since the 1930s. I think we should all prepare to be walking to work.

I remember once, me and my friend were talking about these kind of issues, and his dad said, ‘What are you on about, you’re a f**king racist.’ I said, ‘Get in the car, let’s drive past Luton Sixth Form College.’ After driving past, his dad said, ‘I f**king see what you mean.’ Every single one of them would stop in the road and completely dagger-look you. Their youth are hostile towards us. Even if you’re just walking down the street, you put your head down, or you’re getting in a row. Everyone in Luton knows the score. Tommy Robinson – Leader of the EDL.

Good work from Lucy and the HP team – this stuff is not easy to find in the MSM, and it is just too much trouble trawling the right-wing sites (Gates of Vienna, Brussels Journal) for the occasional nugget among all the paranoia.

“but the fact is, his actions have far more in common with the typical American gun-nut than they do with Islamic terrorism.”

Really is that YOUR opinion or is that a fact.

Are you saying that “Islam” played no part at all in this creatures murderous display of insanity.

I’m with vildechaye. Osama Bin Laden spent an awful lot of time in combat with the Russians during the 1980s. It’s about time we understood 9/11 not as terrorism but the out-of-character actions of an isolated handful of victims tragically unhinged by the horrors they saw in Afghanistan. If Bin Laden is ever apprehended by American soldiers I hope they are compassionate enough to offer him counselling and a nice hot cup of tea until he is feeling better.

I suppose Major Hasan is a typical American serial killer in that he acted alone. In most countries, he would have had to been part of a group or cell however small to kill as many as he did. But here in America, the Land of Freedom, the Home of the Brave and the National Rifle Association and the Right to Bear Automatic Arms, he was able to commit his act of Jihad Terrorism pretty much on his own. That does not, however make Hasan any less of an Islamist Terrorist then the guy who suicide bombs a crowded market in Baghdad.

There has been a lot of arguing back and forth about how much Islam as a whole is to blame for the murderous Terrorists who act in Islam’s name. I believe that Islam per say has relatively little to do with such atrocities, the problem is the fundamentalist Wahabbi version of Islam that is wide spread because of its promotion by Our Enemies, the Saudis who are the world’s leading sponsers of Terrorism. Sir Bernard Lewis has said that to understand the impact of Saudi sponsership of Wahabbism on the rest of Islam, one has to imagine what Christianity would look like if the KKK controlled the oil wealth of Texas and used it relentlessly to finance its hate-filled propaganda. The same has happened with the Saudis using their immense oil wealth to spread their hate-filled extremist version of Islam. In addition, the US and the West supported this hate-filled Saudi Propaganda from the 1950s to the end of the Cold War because it was anti-Soviet and anti-secular nationalist directed against anti-Western demagouges lke Nasser as well.

I”‘m sorry that you fail to see my point. Yes, he was a muslim. He also was a nutcase (and, after all, he was a shrink:). And his actions mimic the actions of other U.S. nutcases with guns (virginia tech, columbine, etc.) much more than suicide bombers etc. Why this particular nutcase should be singled out is for you to explain, not me.

As for Davep, his remarks are lost on me. Nowhere do i say he needs counselling, he deserves a life sentence, of course. 9/11 was terrorism because there was a plan, an organization and a conspiracy. None of that applies to Ft. Hood, to the best of my knowledge. If it turns out there was a plot and he was the main actor in it, then I stand corrected. I’m just going on the evidence so far. As for the 9/11 guys, i hope they’re rotting in hell, where they deserve to be. So don’t misrepresent my position, it’s dishonest and stupid.

Vildechaye: I believe Davep was being sarcastic.

No, it is not out of character. We are in the Third Jihad – the first two were overtly military, stopped by Charles Martel in 712 and Jan Scobiesky in 1683. The Muslims do not have the hardware to take on the West today, though they would if they could.

Their current resurgence dates to the realisation of their impotence and backwardness after WW1. The advent of serious money from oil allowed them to mount a Jihad based not on force, but on propaganda; the suborning of Western academe and media; and immigration.

And it was all going quite smoothly. Western populations were lulled into a soporific stupor with ideas such as “Jihad is spiritual”, “Islam means peace” and other opiates. Then OBL had to jump the gun and poke the dozing giant in the eye, waking it up to what was really hapenning. Be sure that the Jihadi mainstream that has the Arab world by the balls would have struck sooner or later, it was just that in 2001 they were not ready. Hezbollah’s provocation of Israel in 2006 was a similar instance of jumping the gun.

Fairly soon, the jihadis will realise that they are in danger of losing the propaganda war, due to more and more articles like this one. What they really fear is a full on attack by Hollywood – such as a Jack Bauer blockbuster (one series of 24 got a bit close to the mark, so CAIR pulled out all the stops and Fox backed off). Then we shall see the mask drop, and more forceful methods used – this time probably selective use of the oil weapon, with hot wars along the fault lines in Africa.

“Why this particular nutcase should be singled out is for you to explain, not me.”

Because in case you are living in an igloo, 1000 km from the Halley research station, with nothing but a candle, a tin opener and a 186000 tins of beans, the planet happens to be in the midst of an Islamic explosion of maniacal insanity not seen since the 7th century.

That’s “Why this particular nutcase” should not be simply put down as just another nutcase, I’m sorry that in your rush to put this down as just another American nutcase, you are failing to see my point, it appears that this guy was a muslim fanatic, a muslim fanatic that people were to afraid to confront because of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS and peoples fear of being branded racists.

And just to emphasize my thinking on this sorry state of affairs, I BLAME PEOPLE SUCH AS YOU for this suicidally ridiculous state of affairs that the “West” is currently bound by.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU.

his actions have far more in common with the typical American gun-nut than they do with Islamic terrorism.

Like passing these out with those Qur’ans, right?

Animaxander: SCREAMING IN CAPS JUST DOESNT DO IT YOU KNOW…

Yes we are in the midst of an islamist explosion. it’s well known it’s been on the news, i’ve been visiting harry’s for over a year. my position on islamism is well known. but what we have here is a nutter who goes off, and this time is an islamist nutter. When I see a pattern of, say, three or four islamist nutters going off on a murder spree, maybe i’ll take what you say more seriously. Until then, i fully expect the next killing spree to be by a disgruntled postie, disillusioned college student, depressed emo high school student, unhappy husband etc etc etc.

I am not politically correct and i don’t fear being branded a racist. I do, however, like to use my brain and not attribute everything wrong in this world to Islam, even when an islamic person does it. I see you now choose to blame people who think like me for the state of the world, along with the Islamists. Why don’t you call me an anti-semite too… that would fit YOUR pattern. It’s too bad we can’t all think exactly like you, then the world would surely be a better place.
I, on the other hand, don’t blame you and folks who think like you for the woes of the world. I just think your posts are, for the most part, idiotic, and, for lack of a better word, assholic.

Is THAT clear enough for YOU?

And David All: Thank you for kindly informing me of Davep’s intent. Of course I knew he was being sarcastic. It’s just that if you actually read what he so sarcastically wrote, it’s clear he misunderstood and then misrepresented the intent of my original comment, and makes out that since i don’t think hasan is a terrorist, therefore I don’t think the 9/11 gang were terrorists. He’s dead wrong, and plainly thick. I think i get that.

As for Alcuin’s grand islamic world takeover domination theory, two little holes:

1-Immigration. Do you really believe it’s part of a Wahabi master plan. I would have thought it’s the movement of people from shitholes to nice western jobs where they can live more decently. True, a small percentage turn their backs on that, but for the most part, that’s why people all over the world, not just Muslims, immigrate in droves to the West.
2-Suborning western intellectuals, lefties etc. No. Wahabism had nothing to do with that. It was the love affair that parts of the west had and still has for Marxism, combined with an absurd anti-american, anti-western worldview, and the Wahabis have exploited their good fortune. No doubt it pains some Marxists to be allied with such Islamic reactionaries, but hey, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, right. It’s pathetic, but it isn’t Muslim, islamist or wahabi inspired. They probably can’t believe how lucky they are.

As for the rest of your theory, I think it does have some merit. I don’t think the west is as helpless as you and some other posters here think, though. if and when the going gets tougher, i’m sure we’ll rise to the occasion and take the medievalists down.

Bungles has a piece up on CiF, trying to distance muslims from AlAwlaki , but neatly sidestepping any mention of Awlaki’s sojourn in the Uk or his being feted by many of Bungles’ own friends and fellow islamists. A couple of commenters have challenged Bungles to clarify but he is a no show so far.

I’m with Vildechaye. A jidhadist who is a major in the American forces is chucking his position away by killing 13 or so soldiers at an American base. He’d be much more useful to his side if he was in Afghanistan feeding info or access to the Taliban so they could kill a lot more. Not to mention that he was fairly open in his hostility to the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, which presumably a plotting jihadist would keep quiet. Also, after his spree it has come to light that no-one in authority would listen to the suspicions of his colleagues, which presumably won’t happen again.

Good article here:-

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/08/fort-hood-nidal-malik-hasan-muslims-opinions-columnists-tunku-varadarajan.html

“Going postal” is a piquant American phrase that describes the phenomenon of violent rage in which a worker–archetypically a postal worker–”snaps” and guns down his colleagues.

As the enormity of the actions of Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan sinks in, we must ask whether we are confronting a new phenomenon of violent rage, one we might dub–disconcertingly–”Going Muslim.” This phrase would describe the turn of events where a seemingly integrated Muslim-American–a friendly donut vendor in New York, say, or an officer in the U.S. Army at Fort Hood–discards his apparent integration into American society and elects to vindicate his religion in an act of messianic violence against his fellow Americans. This would appear to be what happened in the case of Maj. Hasan.

Not to mention that he was fairly open in his hostility to the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, which presumably a plotting jihadist would keep quiet.

Jihad is a call to fight, not to plot. And one of the prime motivators of jihadis is the principle of al-wala’ wa’l-bara’, “Loving and Hating (for the sake of Allah)”. Hating, detesting, despising the kafirs is not only normal, but all-consumingly so.

As usual for this blog, Islam is being given a free pass yet again.

I agree that many people are fanatical by temperament, no matter what religion they are brought up in; and that others are peaceful and tolerant, no matter the intrinsic fanaticism of the religion they are brought up in. But for many more, religious indoctrination does make the difference: good people are made to do evil because they are taught that this particular evil is the will of God. To repeat a comparison I’ve made before: some people get drunk and still drive home safely; others are teetotallers and yet are a danger on the road; but for most people, alcohol does make the difference between driving safely and causing an accident. Therefore, most acts of Islamic fanaticism [...] are the result of Islamic indoctrination, committed by people who would never have done so if they or their ancestors had not been islamized.

Deislamification. Now. It’s the only answer.

Deislamification. Now. It’s the only answer.

Banning the quran? Repatriating muslim foreigners? Interning muslim citizens and restricting their civil rights? Shutting down mosques?

Come on and spell out what you mean by the phrase “deislamification”? I am all for speaking out clearly against the islamist agenda, even actively fighting it, as much as any other theocratic impulse (say, hindu vigilantes attacking women drinkers or catholic bishops meddling with healthcare legislation and narrowing women’s abortion rights as happened recently in the US or other christian fuckwits playing fast and loose with gay rights in my neck of the woods). But absolutely no more than that. No truck with forced deislamification or dechristianising or or de-whatever.

Follow the money, vildechaye. You will not find an Islamic or Middle East Studies course in a Western university that is not funded by the Saudi Wahhabis and chaired by their nominees. They, of course, get to design, and sanitise, the syllabus. Writers like Dadrian, Bostom, Spencer, Bawer, Bat Ye’or, Fallaci, Phares and Trifkovic will not be on your reading list, while charlatans like Edward Said and Karen Armstrong will be. Should you be seen with one of the former group’s books, or start asking questions like “what about the Banu Quraish, Tamerlaine, the Armenian Genocide”, or querying the politically correct interpretation of Jihad, and you will get the sort of look a conservative would get if he were to ask Chomsky about Bosnia. It would be suggested that the course was not for you and you might like to leave.

We have now had two generations of such intellectually stunted graduates, who now populate the Foreign Office, and advise our Lawyers, Police and Welfare services. This may be a Stealth Jihad, but it is still Jihad.

Maybe what you speak of is dominant in England, but here on the other side of the pond, it’s the Po-Mo deconstructionist Marxism that dominates Universities, and middle eastern studies, though no doubt significant as you say, play a marginal role. And those studies, cultural studies, polil-sci, sociology, etc etc ad nauseam, aren’t funded by Wahabis or any other muslims. It’s our own stupid academe culture that’s too blame. ME studies wouldn’t have a hope and a prayer, even if funded by all that dough, if it weren’t for the underlying sympathetic backdrop provided by our Marxist so-called intellectual class and their hangers-on.