Harry's Place

It isn’t the fact of attendance that is wrong. It is the stance taken by the speaker when they get there. If Tonge was going to present a critical, rational, moral and anti-racist case against Hamas, and against Jobbik, then she should go. However, I don’t think she would.

Why Clegg allows this woman to continue masquerading as a liberal, with her track record, is a mystery.

I must say fascist uniform’s not what it was. That’s a weskit with a badge sewn on.

I would never say that Jenny Tonge is a bad as Hitler. However you could have said this about Hitler couldn’t you?
“I have to say, and I know this will be enormously unpopular for many readers of the Jewish Chronicle, but the sad thing is that Adolf Hitler says many other things that are worth listening to and are completely obscured by what has become polemicised. It does a disservice to him.”

But you would have had to been crazy!

the sad thing is that Jenny Tonge says many other things that are worth listening to and are completely obscured by what has become polemicised

Ergo, she’s at best pointless and at worst harmful, so she has to go.

Clegg supports Tonge because he believes a taste of jew-bashing is electorally advantageous. This is clear from his reference to JC readers. You don’t have to read Marx to understand why liberal parties occupy a moral sewer.

As Mrs A said

That Nothing British rabble is just a Tory front organisation set up to stop the Tories getting their hands dirty and so alienate millions of their Daily Mail reading voters who might start wondering why they are voting for David Cameron in the first place.

They must think we’re stupid Abdul.

They make the BNP look positively clever.

Peace be upon me.

‘They must think we’re stupid Abdul.’

And in you’re case they’d be correct.

“OK Nick. I understand that it might not be a problem for one of the Lib Dem’s most prominent peers to speak on a pro-Hamas platform.

However, at the very least, she’ll be speaking to an organisation which solicits the support of Europe’s worst neo Nazis.”

Why is Hamas and their supporters any less vile than Kristina Morvai?

Those so called liberals who attend a pro Hamas conference are also just as vile.

j.r. is right.

j.r. is right.

The Tonge woman was sent to the Lib Dem back
benches very quickly after voicing her repellant
opinions on Israel.
She should, of course been bunged out of the party.

A few weeks later she’s made a peer. Until we
become a democracy we’re stuck with her in
Parliament

Has anyone asked what passes for leadership
in that party of political tarts why she was
so rewarded ?

How come she’s both punished & promoted within a
few weeks & no change of her opinions ?

Is that Tory front organisation going to hold a mirror up to its own demons and question Dave’s choice of friends in Europe? Just curious.

What does that have to do with the title story, Mike?

What does that have to do with the title story, Mike?

It must be on the latest briefing sheet Millbank has sent around.

Well about as much as Hamas has to do with the BNP. Notwithstanding the fact that they’re both a bunch o’ c**ts.

>> Well about as much as Hamas has to do with the BNP.

Dreadful. Just dreadful.

You don’t think it’s a valid question to ask?

Not at all – it’s contemptible dishonest Labour party propaganda, odious and amoral in form and nature.

The reason is this: whereas Jobbik are patently a really nasty bunch of extremists (even if it were not for their links with the Magyar Guard), as are (say) Samooborona in Poland (or, in a slightly different way, the Liga Polskich Rodzin), or as were, say, the Zigerists party (who really were neo-Nazi in their leadership, considerably more so even than Jobbik, in fact) in Latvia that the LB/TNNK helped to isolate and keep out of national government for three years in the mid 1990s… whereas the only “crime” that the Tories new allies in those countries (and it really is a crime in the eyes of many of the vile people who are attacking them for it) is to be, shock horror, actual real conservatives, and not amoral Blairite clowns or (not least having been subjected to several decades of socialism and all that that entailed) socialists or socialist-symphasisers.

The Tories have nothing to apologise for, or to give explanations for, at all: not to the vile lynch mob who are demanding it, anyway,.

Well this guy doesn’t look like a Millbank stooge to me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/28/eric-pickles-tories-latvia-nazi

Yes, it is a valid question, Mike. Another valid question is why you cannot ever, ever *EVER* discuss left-wing soppyness over fascists and murderous antisemites.

Is that Tory front organisation going to hold a mirror up to its own demons and question Dave’s choice of friends in Europe? Just curious.

I’d say its doubtful (as it isn’t that long since the Tories fully embraced British fascists never mind continental ones.) That’s true Conservatism after all.

Honestly, you have to despair at ven sometimes.

Michael Kaminski, leader of the bloc which Cameron has joined in the EU has lauded Pinochet, bandied the Polish word for “fags” around when talking about gay people: (and when criticised said: “That’s how people speak, what should I say? They are fags.”) Prevented a commemoration of a WW” massacre of Polish Jews (and when asked why, come up with the classic conspiracy theory that Jews were responsible for the Russian revolution and there should be no commemorations of atrocities against them until Jews (yes all of them) apologise for the crimes of communism.

Of course this is a man who Daniel Hannan says is: “the closest thing to a British Tory outside the Carlton Club” to which one can only wonder at such an outbreak of honesty.

What’s all this stuff about “Tory front organizations” ?

I thought we were discussing the Left’s cozying up
with rebranded nazis & the Lib Dem’s total lack of
principals & morals.

If I had the privilege of being a Jew, I would support
Cameron or UKIP. As a secular humanist &, I hope, a
tough liberal I’ll support Cameron or UKIP.

If I were a Jew, I’d have atavistic memories of Germany
in the late 20s.
Labour is courting anti semites, & knowingly importing
them.
The BNP, the only voice of the old working class, is
besmirched with anti semitism & general racism.

The Lib Dems, like the trendy left, think it smart
to hate Israel & encourage so called “Palestinians”

As an old style 60s (anti hippy) liberal, I feel
threatened.
Jews & women from a certain background must feel worse.

Just remember labels are meaningless. It’s
actions that count.
Does anyone still think that “people’s democratic republics”
were anything other than fascist dictatorships?

Listening to Composer of the Week on Radio3, about Erik Satie, I can’t help but think of Ven.

I’m not seeing many comments, apart from the lead item, praising the stand of the retiring, but not shy, MP for Walthamstow.

Listening to Composer of the Week on Radio3, about Erik Satie, I can’t help but think of Ven.

Really? These days I always get a mental image of a cross between Auberon Waugh and Brian Sewell.

It is right to point out that Krisztina Morvai is MEP for a racist, antisemitic and homophob Jobbik party.
But it should be made known also in the UK that in Hungary the conservative Fidesz is allied in many lokal councils with Jobbik and that in Fidesz near Media racist and antisemitic incitement is going on.

If I were a Jew, I’d have atavistic memories of Germany
in the late 20s.

If I were a Jew I’d have memories of William Joyce (aka “Lord Haw Haw”) stewarding Conservative party meetings in the late twenties.

I’d say its doubtful (as it isn’t that long since the Tories fully embraced British fascists never mind continental ones.) That’s true Conservatism after all.

If I were a Jew I’d have memories of William Joyce (aka “Lord Haw Haw”) stewarding Conservative party meetings in the late twenties.

Pathetic and desperate beyond words.

British not Racist,

I am a Jew, a secular humanist and a liberal (not ‘liberal’), and I can only agree with everything you say.

Pathetic and desperate beyond words.

I agree thatthe Tories using Joyce and the BUF was “pathetic and desperate beyond words”. However with high profile fascist fellow travellers such as Viscount Lymington and outspoken anti-semites such as Joynson-Hicks as MP’s and cabinet ministers what do you expect?

Little changes in the tory party.

“Listening to Composer of the Week on Radio3, about Erik Satie, I can’t help but think of Ven.”

I’d be careful. There’s something of Jed Parry about this.

>>> Well about as much as Hamas has to do with the BNP.

>>>> Notwithstanding the fact that they’re both a bunch o’ c**ts.

I would say that this is true of all nationalists, sectarians and hate mongers including Zionists.

“I’m not seeing many comments, apart from the lead item, praising the stand of the retiring, but not shy, MP for Walthamstow”

Perhaps because his hypocrisy sticks in the craw? Mr Gerrard makes the lofty gesture of refusing to share a platform with Kristina Morvai, when in fact he’s previously been more than happy to support the PRC despite its involvement with and support for Islamist fascists. Presumably that he would have attended this pro-Hamas rally if Kristina Morvai had not been invited?

And he’s being congratulated? Unbelievable.

BTW it is perfectly possible to support the Palestinians’ right to live in Palestine while at the same time disliking Hamas.

In fact, Hamas is if anything the second largest obstacle to Palestinians returning home.

The largest of all is, of course, Israel and its racist ideology.l

What is pathetic and desperate, British not Racist, is you attempting to hijack the thread in favour of some Tory cheerleading contest.

What is particularly desperate about this, of course, is the fact that you baldly state that the Tories are better on anti-semitism than Labour when it is your party cosying up to fascists in Europe.

Stunningly pathetic.

Sorry – BNR and Gordon Bennett fusing into one for me there. Not entirely surprising, methinks.

Some British fascist came from the consevative party, others from the Independent Labour Party (ILP).
As a matter of fact in Hungary some of the loudest racist and antisemités had been communists in the past.

Karl
Is it not the case that in the old Eastern Bloc many if not most of the politicians have a communist past? An inevitable product of a largely one-party states.

Ben.

“Gordon Bennett! is yet another incarnation of “Nearly Oxfordian” “Sandal” and etc etc (to infinity.)

Some British fascist came from the consevative party, others from the Independent Labour Party (ILP).

A couple of low-level types went from labour to the New party and of course Mosley had been both a Tory and a Labour MP. But while the Tories had many fascists actually in the party as well as providing security (and Arnold Leese, criticising from the rabidly racial right could call Mosley’s movement “Conservatism with knobs on.”) The Labour party always resisted attempts (repeated attempts in fact) by the Communist party to affiliate.

Karl is right. Fidesz more than plays ‘footsie’ with Jobbik and yet is accepted in mainstream conservative circles. They will be Hungary’s government soon.

Morvai wasn’t always an anti-semite and her conversion from liberal human rights lawyer to lunatic nationalist was the result of a single incident – which shows you the danger of having a culture, like Hungary’s, where anti-semitism really is an every day reality.

Mike S is right though – the Tories should sort themselves out over their Euro allies and Labour has every right to call them out.

Also agreed re: Fidesz: but the thing about them is…they are more populist than traditional conservative in a lot of regards; and above all about servicing the ever flexible (and increasingly) deluded ego of their leader, Viktor Orban.

I wouldn’t approve of the Tories aligning with Fidesz, either. Their nearest approximate equivalent in Europe would be either of the parties (big on slogans and rhetoric, light on principles, dubious friends and vile policies) that Silvio Berlusconi succeeded in forging in Italy. In fact the Orban/Berlusconi comparison works at a number of levels. Obviously one Berlusconi character in a position of power is one too many; and I from afar am no more looking forward to Orban as PM of Hungary than I delight in Silvio as his equivalent in Italy.

But still, none of the Tories allies in Europe are anything like that. Indeed….the fact they split from the group that Berlusconi’s adoring mobs were in further reflects well upon their choice.

I’m no Tory; but i also see that they have nothing to apologise or explain as regards their European parliamentary allies; and as far as I can see it is quasi-totalitarians (and supremely hypocritical ones to boot) who are making such demands. To such people – as to Jobbik, as to Fidesz, as to Orban, as to Berlusconi – one says the traditional greeting: NO SURRENDER

Blimey. He’s happier about Kaminski than about bloggers….

George Orwell, Nov 11th, 5:06 PM: Did not at least one or two promenient British Conservatives back in the 30s actually say such things about Hitler? It sounds awfully familiar, historically speaking.

Nice to know that although apearing on a platform with Hamas is okay as far as Labour is concerned, doing so with a neo-Nazi is not.

Joseph K. @ 12 November 2009, 3:25 pm

“Mr Gerrard makes the lofty gesture ………… And he’s being congratulated? Unbelievable.”

I seem to recall that a previous argument lead to him having a dialogue with the editors of this blog. Oh, and lofty gestures are not at all his style.

Did not at least one or two promenient British Conservatives back in the 30s actually say such things about Hitler?

The aforementioned Lymington (although admittedly 4 years after he stopped being a minister in the Tory government) actually called for Hitler to bomb every ministry except the one for agriculture on the grounds that all the others were full of urban cosmopolitans.

Thanks, Graham. I googled Lymington and found his entry on wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Wallop_9th_Earl_of_Portsmouth

He certainly seems to have been pretty strange. Freeman Dyson talks about encountering Lymington at harvest time during the War. Lymington wanted the harvest workers to work in rhythm just like he had seen in pre-war Nazi Germany with Strength Through Joy activities involving Hitler Youth!

I’m a big fan of Venchika. In a world too full of generics, he (I think) stands out as erudite, passionate and determinedly free-thinking. I don’t agree with him on much, but that’s kind of the point of here, isn’t it?

I am confused by someone who generally makes Pope Benedict look like SInead O’Connor appropriating Shankhill graffiti though.

“To such people – as to Jobbik, as to Fidesz, as to Orban, as to Berlusconi – one says the traditional greeting: NO SURRENDER”

Ah Wikipedia does not give much info on Lymington in his bio entry

He was a shadowy figure behind the small (and very upper class) pre-war ultra-right groups “English Mistery” and “English Array” and the “Council against European commitments” (a kind of “stop the war against Hitler movement.) Very much into “back to the land” stuff and I suspect very much more connected to Mosley etc than is now known.