Harry's Place

As chairman of the LDFP, either McHugo knows exactly what his website proclaims and approves of it, or he’s a complete idiot ready to see his party suffer negative publicity the next time Britain goes to the polls.

This McHugo is a fucking twat

‘The deliberate absence of the word ‘all’ before ‘territories
occupied in the recent conflict’ in Resolution 242 makes it clear that Israel was never intended to return all the occupied territories in exchange for peace. The Resolution specifies that Israel should have ’secure and recognised boundaries’ as part of such a peace settlement. Israel therefore has the right to insist on territorial concessions in its favour as part of a peace treaty.’

This controversial interpretation of Resolution 242 is simply not sustainable. When interpreting a document it is essential to interpret it as a whole, establishing at the outset the ordinary meaning of the wording. One cannot cherry pick just those elements which suit one’s own interpretation, as Israel does.

In precisely drafted documents, it is common not to use the word ‘all’ before a plural noun where that noun (or noun phrase) indicates a category and this is clear in context. If a category is intended then everything that falls into that category is intended.

Its NOT controversial. Lord Caradon who drafted Res 242 explained why they left out the word “All”. The way the whole page is written is as if its Israel that has deliberately manipulated the World and bent law to achieve its status.

Since the website included the Liberal Democratic logo I will assume that McHugo is writing on behalf of the Liberal Democratic Party and someone should be writing to the leadership to ask if this crap is official LDP policy and if so to publicly declare it to be so by publishing their answer OR tell him to take it down.

Its the Lib Dems, what do you expect? They are complete unprincipled scum.

I went to the Christisons at Amnesty last night:

Amnesty hosted Kathleen and Bill Christison to promote their new book “Palestine in Pieces”. Audience of 60, many young.

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/10/15/amnesty-international-uk-going-out-in-the-cold/

The couple are ex-CIA (30 years ago). The book is published by Pluto Press which specialises in antisemitism having published White’s ‘Israeli Apartheid’. (It was founded by Richard Kuper). BC started with a pean of praise to John Pilger and Counterpoint.

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/12/24/the-press-complaints-commission-how-%e2%80%98high%e2%80%99-is-high/

He followed with the usual defamation of Zionism: conditions in the West Bank have constantly got worse under Zionism (I later pointed out the IMF forecast of 7% growth for this year); “Zionism sweeps everything from its path”; “Zionism has no room for non-Jews”; terrorism in the West is due to the failure to resolve the Palestinian issue. She then spoke with a long reading from the book about an Arab village near Jerusalem.

“Obama has let us all down abysmally” because he thinks he needs the ‘Israel Lobby’ to win a second term. “Israeli leaders scare Israeli voters” into thinking they are under threat [Me: Ahmadinejad said five times ‘wipe from the map’; BC: You need to look at the inaccurate translation from Farsi….] Me: That is a myth – see
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinreview/11bronner.html

Q+A: They don’t like J-Street, it is too Zionist; BC thinks there is hope since things might go so wrong in the Middle East or Pakistan that public opinion in the US may turn against Israel.

In recent weeks Amnesty has also hosted Jeff Halper and Ben White. Who next – David Irving? David Duke?

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/11/01/amnestys-well-of-truth-is-brackish/

I went last night to Amnesty:

On 10 November 2009 Amnesty hosted Kathleen and Bill Christison to promote their new book “Palestine in Pieces”. Audience of 60, many young.

The couple are ex-CIA (30 years ago). The book is published by Pluto Press which specialises in antisemitism having published White’s ‘Israeli Apartheid’. (It was founded by Richard Kuper). BC started with a pean of praise to John Pilger and Counterpoint.

He followed with the usual defamation of Zionism: conditions in the West Bank have constantly got worse under Zionism (I later pointed out the IMF forecast of 7% growth for this year); “Zionism sweeps everything from its path”; “Zionism has no room for non-Jews”; terrorism in the West is due to the failure to resolve the Palestinian issue. She then spoke with a long reading from the book about an Arab village near Jerusalem.

“Obama has let us all down abysmally” because he thinks he needs the ‘Israel Lobby’ to win a second term. “Israeli leaders scare Israeli voters” into thinking they are under threat [Me: Ahmadinejad said five times ‘wipe from the map’; BC: You need to look at the inaccurate translation from Farsi….] Me: That is a myth – see
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinreview/11bronner.html

Q+A: They don’t like J-Street, it is too Zionist; BC thinks there is hope since things might go so wrong in the Middle East or Pakistan that public opinion in the US may turn against Israel.

In recent weeks Amnesty has also hosted Jeff Halper and Ben White. Who next – David Irving? David Duke?

The ranting and ravings of some of the “guest speakers” doesn’t really bother me that much. Sure they are racist, horrible people, but most sensible people can ignore.

What horrifies sensible folk is the fact that organisations such as Amnesty are getting into bed with these people. I used to have a lot of respect for Amnesty, but now i am not too sure.

They, along with other formerly proud organisations, have fallen into the trap of the Left “trendy bandwagon” that has warped their politics.

They will come to regret it.

Live long….

I used to have a lot of respect for Amnesty, but now i am not too sure.

I told you that Amnesty were utter scum. Now do you believe me?

They, along with other formerly proud organisations, have fallen into the trap of the Left “trendy bandwagon” that has warped their politics.

They always were utter scum.

I emailed Amnesty about that meeting; never got a reply. What a shameful bunch.

The Lib Dems have more form for this sort of disgraceful bigotry than either of the other two main parties. Jenny Tonge is the one lots of people remember. In local elections they have produced some disgusting opportunist propaganda attempting to whip-up Muslims about Iraq in a RESPECT-esque manner – they are just a bunch of sandal-wearing filth.

“What horrifies sensible folk is the fact that organisations such as Amnesty are getting into bed with these people. I used to have a lot of respect for Amnesty, but now i am not too sure.”

I agree. They do a lot of good work, but have become tied up in the anti-imperialism movement (or however you want to define the far left). The IP conflict is a complicated one and just bringing in groups that have an absurdly one-sided view negates so much of the good work they do.

Paddy Ashdown, ex-leader of the Lib Dems, is hardly sandal-wearing filth.

He is not only involved with the Quilliam Foundation; but is on record (and as early as the mid-’90s) as suggesting that, after he collapse of USSR-style totalitarianism the next threat to democracy and human rights would come from Islamism.

Just so a slightly more nuanced approach to matters LD (and AI) in particular might be sponsored on this thread.

Yes, Abu – i quite like Ashdown.

However his importance to the current Lib Dems is …..non-existent.

Your point may have had some relevance if it was made 10 or 15 years ago.

MattG

What MattG said.

“a slightly more nuanced approach to matters LD (and AI)”

That’s apologist talk right there, isn’t it? Aren’t you saying “some of the stuff AI and LD are doing isn’t bad, therefore we should take that into account when they’re being foaming mouthed anti-Semites, you know maybe that’s a price worth paying, after all, there aren’t that many Jews knocking around”.

Not at all, Greg. That is not my point. I am in no way suggesting that because LD and AI do “some good things” that any variance from such should be ignored. Consequently, I am not being an apologist for anyone or anything. In no way am I suggesting that such matters as may be objkectionable should be ignored.

What I am suggesting, Greg, is that a black-and-white model of LD, AI or anything else ignores the diversity of views in such organisations in favour of a simplistic view that therefore they are <i<in toto unconscionable “scum”. This actually undermines the very good things AI (or individual LDs) may be about.

I can assure you that such views as you seem to want to project onto me as discounting the number of Jews are unwarranted. Please do not jump to conclusions as extreme as these when all I am calling for is a little balance before whole groups such as AI (or even LD) are consigned to the dustbin as “scum”. I apologise if you did not understand my rather simple point.

MattG

I take your point. Agreed.

Slightly related to the topic there is quite an interesting article on fundamentalism in the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/11/08/why_fundamentalism_will_fail/?page=1

, after he collapse of USSR-style totalitarianism the next threat to democracy and human rights would come from Islamism.

Give credit were credit is due this statement belongs to Margaret Thatcher who the usual suspects accused of being a war mongerer!
Even Thatcher was probably unaware how relatively quick the atrocities would come!

Jonathan, Do you work for Pluto? You are a phenomenal publicist for the books!

The self-important types at AI don’t like uppity Jews, it’s as simple as that. Never have done, either.

Here is Mr Roberts going on and on about Israel controlling American foreign policy, the media and the US Congress on Iran’s Press TV

Iran Press TV, the well-known bullwark of American patriotism??? Is this man completely round the twist??? Answers on a postcard, please.

In precisely drafted documents, it is common not to use the word ‘all’ before a plural noun where that noun (or noun phrase) indicates a category and this is clear in context.

Crap with a cherry on top.

Paddy Ashdown, ex-leader of the Lib Dems, is hardly sandal-wearing filth.

He produced a TV programme about Jerusalem that was only just this side of historically mendacious and antisemitic.

Can you imagine Abu Farris saying “What I am suggesting, Greg, is that a black-and-white model of the KKK or anything else ignores the diversity of views in such organisations in favour of a simplistic view that therefore they are <i<in toto unconscionable “scum”.”?

No, neither can I.

But anti-semites get a free pass in his book as long as they are sufficiently “progressive”.

Ah, Abu, I think I understand your argument now. You’re saying that just because lots of members of AI and/or LD are Jew-haters, that’s no reason to suppose every single member of these organisations is a Jew-hater, even if they don’t mind being associated with Jew-haters, attending anti-Semitism themed events or being members of an organisation that fosters Jew-hatred.

Morgoth, your argument is pitiful and stupid.

But anti-semites get a free pass in his book as long as they are sufficiently “progressive”.

You know this, do you? Show me where such a conclusion can be drawn. Failing that, troll elsewhere.

No, Greg, that is not my position, as I believe I made perfectly clear earlier. Are you suggesting that LD and AI should now be disbanded?

MUST READ! An absolutely brilliant antisemitic conspiracy theory rant posted at MPAC UK. It will surely be posted by the Lib Dems. Its just so “them”.

Look at the post “The Zionist Enemy” by Mark Glenn http://www.mpacuk.org/story/111109/channel-4-power-israels-lobby-watch-it-monday-8pm.html#comment-6582

He’s even left his e-mail address so you can congratulate him.

Abu, the only thing that you have made clear is that you believe there are a variety of views within the organisations in question, and as such no subset of views should be used to characterise the organisations as a whole.

Given that we’re talking about racism and not, say, The X Factor you are talking 100% rubbish. There are some subjects about which a range of views is entirely acceptable (regardless of how correct they might be), say, the size of the welfare state, or the extent of regulation in the City. However some views are so abhorrent that they poison the well for the whole organisation. Foaming-mouthed anti-Semitism as pushed by Tonge and the Christisons is just that. If a member of either the LibDems or Amnesty were to imply there might be something to the research which says blacks are genetically less intelligent than whites they’d be toast then history within 2 hours. However, pure undiluted anti-Semitism (which, make no mistake, talk of Jewish cabals, evil Zionists etc. most certainly is) goes by with ne’er a slap on the wrist (and in AI’s case, actively promoted). Without rebuttal or censure, outbursts of bigotry are implicitly approved by the organisation.

Should the LD and AI be disbanded? If they don’t throw out their bigots, then yes, absolutely, the sooner the better and no-one except a few white middle-class students at some third rate universities is going to miss them.

Plus the pitiful Abu Faris.

Perhaps you are right, Greg. However, I am glad that you can now see the point I was making. Thanks.

How very constructive, Gordon.

Jon

I would rather swallow razor blades than work for Pluto

Hahaha, Jonathan you’re a wonder.

Its great that you work so tirelessly to boost the profile of Pluto authors and help people to put across dissenting viewpoints.

Without a doubt you have helped to raise Ben White’s (for example) international profile. I hear that in events in Canada people were reading out your review and then buying the book to see if what you wrote was true.

Well jon ’sunlight is the best form of disinfectant’ and your books certainly need that, don’t they?

Hahaha. Sunlight or Disinfectant? You hate all Pluto books or just Ben and K&B’s?

White’s book = 86,172 in Amazon UK sales and 94,792 in Amazon US sales

Yeah right Jon, people are falling over themselves to buy it ….not …

Jonathan, thanks for those. I remember that it was the number 1 book on Israel the day after your review.

On a seperate subject am I right in thinking you’re an economist by trade?

Troll? haha. You are the one excusing rank anti-semitism and an organisation that tolerates and encourages said rank anti-semitism in its ranks, Abu Faris.