Harry's Place

I tentatively suggested that perhaps the Jewish community, with its deep roots in the East End, had a duty towards the area that had once been its home.

This could take a very practical form. Jews from East London could share their experiences with recent incomers. The community leadership could pass on what had been learnt from the difficult process of integration.

This sounds almost comically like an updated left version of “the white man’s burden”. What a patronising take on the present communities of the East End. They’re assumed to be “recent incomers”. The East End has been home to huge Bangladeshi and Pakistani communities since the late 60s and 70s. That’s getting on for 30 and 40 years.

As it happens, the Board of Deputies has been doing common work with other immigrant faith communities for decades, and has (to my embarrassment at least) sometimes taken on a patronising stance of this kind. As did the then Chief Rabbi Immanuel Jakobovits when he wrote a widely publicized paper suggesting that these communities could profitably learn from Jewish entrepreneurialism and self sufficiency instead of moaning and demonstrating. Oh dear.

Or is Martin Bright thinking of the mythical success of Cable Street? Organized by the Communist Party, it was not in fact the brilliant success that left ideology makes it.

The Jewish community is a diverse body with diverse interests. Why should it be deemed to have some sort of “duty” to the place where some of its members’ grandparents and great-grandparents lived. I grew up in the heart of Stepney and lived there till I was nearly 18. I don’t see why that gives me any special insight into the particular issues of the Bangladeshi and other communities, or any particular advantage or insights I have in how to combat the BNP. And I can’t see that the Bangladeshi community needs Martin Bright to suggest that they need the suburban grandchildren and great grandchildren of the tailors and market stallholders of the old East End to enlighten them or be given some sort of particular preference in combating the BNP.

Never mind, I know Jonathan Freedland, he of UCS public school and Oxbridge and the Guardian editorial staff, will think it’s a wonderful idea. He’s been spouting stuff like this for years. Why he even lives in Stoke Newington and regularly tells us about the wonderful example of his Communist Party functionary uncle in saving the East End from fascism. Yes, just the ticket. We need lots more like that!

Still, let’s remember that this is hardly a new idea. Time was when the wealthy West End Jews and intellectuals saw themselves as having an equal duty to help the new immigrant Jews of the East End. They aped the Christian and Socialist intellectuals who set up settlements aimed at enlightening the benighted poor by establishing matching Jewish settlements. Like the one I was sent to by my unsuspecting parents: Oxford and St Georges– a club to teach the immigrants what they needed. It was run by Jewish grandee Sir Basil Henriques–he liked to think he understood the culture of East End Jews, so we were required to call him “The Gaffer” and his wife “The Missus”.

There were socialist equivalents, too.

I think this shows that Martin is equally naive in his understanding of both the Bangladeshi and the Jewish community. And in his view of how best to counter the rise of the BNP.

“What do you mean? Are you seriously suggesting that we go back?”

Mrs A likes your article Mr Bright but says:

Abdul who the hell would want to come back to this dump ?

If only we could get out to somewhere decent like Barking say or Dagenham we’d never retrun.

Promise me Abdul.

But then a nice BNP man comes in for his Daily Mail.

Perhaps the multi-cultural harmony of the East End could be furthered by having a Dundonian as its beloved leader.

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4906

Judy is still her spiteful, neurotic, bitter self I see. And prolix.
“Six decades of accumulated opinions” her blog says. More like six decades of verbosity, obsessions, hang ups, issues, and bile.

What on Earth do a bunch of do-gooding middle class Guardianistas have to teach the streetwise Bangladeshi community of East London? This is a load of self-righteous bullshit.

The reality is that the institutions have played a central role in promoting a sectarian Islam that represents only one strand of thinking within the magnificent diversity of this world religion.

Such wonderfully creative fiction. All it needs is a powerpoint presentation.

Judy, do you hve examples of initiatives, either theoretical or ones actually ongoing, of the kind of interaction which you think is reciprocally beneficial to all contributors (that is not top down one way bestowing, which I agree is problematic).

How come the outreach is always and only one way (towards Islam)?

Martin Bright often has good things to say but this is pointless daydreaming. I doubt even the ordinary Muslims of the East End are interested in some middle class Jews who got out of the area half a century or more ago telling them how to “better themselves”, whilst the Islamists are scouring neo-nazi websites for articles and inspiration.

Also, what happens when they ask about how the Jews feel about Israel? Embarrassed shuffling of feet…

If the East End Muslims really want to better themselves, forget Islam, study hard (no, the Koran doesn’t count!), work hard and follow in the footsteps of British Hindus and Sikhs in becoming middle class. It is in their own hands and needs no intervention from patronising do-gooders.

B

Judy, do you hve examples of initiatives, either theoretical or ones actually ongoing, of the kind of interaction which you think is reciprocally beneficial to all contributors (that is not top down one way bestowing, which I agree is problematic).

Not quite sure what exactly you’re asking about, Amie, but I’ve been thinking for some time that the way to defeat the BNP is not via street demonstrations or attempts at emotional coercion.

It’s an issue around democracy. So I do favour involving all civil society groups in discussions about how to secure democracy via reforming our electoral and representational systems at all levels.

My view is the only way to defeat the BNP is via 100% democracy–ie if every entitled voter was enrolled and required to vote, the same way they’re required to pay taxes and do jury service, the BNP would not be winning any elections. This should be made easy and practical via setting up an online voting system, with voting stations replaced by local public booths where those without online facilities and the handicapped could vote and be helped with the physical process of casting their vote if needed.

Paypal, eBay, Amazon etc probably have larger worldwide customer bases than the entire UK electorate. And they have to ensure that they’re not crackable by fraudsters. So the knowledge and technology to achieve this are operating today. As long as we don’t leave it to the Civil Service to set up and run the contract.

I wish the left took this possibility more seriously. I think the Labour Party is still too tied to the union leaderships’ insistence on choosing the candidates to be able to take this on, but I would love to see grassroots campaigns for 100% democracy within Labour. Plus compulsory open selection primaries and vote-ins.

I see being required to vote as the real “duty” (ie civic responsibility) which every adult should take on. And of course it would include the right to say “none of the above” and/or write in an alternative.

The BNP of course would expose itself even more with open primaries. Imagine being able to circulate some of the riper contributions of Lee WhatisName and his mates. No poll has shown the BNP getting more than 22% of even the contemplated vote. As long as we retain a first past the post system, with large constituencies, the BNP will be shown to be the marginal party that it is. As will Respect and the Trot groups.

Not quite sure what exactly you’re asking about, Amie: cross communal or interfaith bridge building type inititiatives like the one Martin Bright proposes, but without patronage

My experience of successful interfaith bridge building initiatives is that to succeed they need to be low-politics rather than high-politics issues. Otherwise they rapidly become polarised or captured by minority
activist groups.

In the case of the London Muslim & Jewish communities, there is a good track record of successful shared action (and related mutual trust building) in responding to anti-Shechita (Jewish religious slaughter) and anti-Hallal campaigns. There is also good cross community co-operation in Hackney that I know of around calming down local faith groups when there are potential conflicts and flashpoints (these operated well on 2002 after Defensive Shield/Jenin). I was for some years involved in a cross community group to promote a multi-faith school (ie a joint school enterprise with CofE, Muslim, Hindu and Jewish entries working together).

The North London Hospice has a very successful shared chaplaincy group where all those faiths and more work together to ensure that patients of every faith have the end of life provision they want in terms of faith support. It also leads to good contacts and shared projects between the various churches/mosques/synagogues/temples and their congregations. The New North London Synagogue (which I used to belong to) has a good track record in work of that kind.

None of those can really provide a successful shared base to oppose the BNP, in my view. But they’re worth pursuing for a longer-view base of increasing co-operation and experience of mutual support and trust across a range of projects.

It is best if people with proper British values make alliance than racialist based selfish interests. Just look what Muslims had done for Una King, and how she paid them back.

Muslims are not docile people who can easily be manipulated. Why would a “British Jew” not join with Muslims to fight for equity and freedom for Arabs occupied in what is now known as Israel. Is any of the Millibands a friend of Palestine?

Great. So Judy wants compulsory voting in a first past the post system – that is compulsory unequal votes, with a small proportion of the electorate actually deciding the election, and governments elected on a minority of votes. For this pile of shite you are required, forced, to vote. “100% democracy”, Judy style.

Just look what Muslims had done for Una King, and how she paid them back.

????????

That ugly’s name escapes me, but I think it is spelt Oona King.

Can you post a photo of yourself Mr M, so we can judge whether you meet the standard of pulchritude required for your comments to be accorded any due consideration.

Seriously? Jews have the answer to everything? Give me a break!

The article is extremely patronising and offensive the numerous mainstream moderate Muslims who live and work in the East End of London; the majority of whom use the East London Mosque!

Sod the East End. You lot clearly haven’t lived in New York. There it’s an honour to be Jewish, and everyone else is just jealous!

The other thing I like the article the is specific call to make an allience with Bangaladeshis. The assumption behind being that Bangaladeshis hate Pakistanis, when in fact they hate people who hate Pakistanis even more.

You haven’t responded to my inquire Mr M:How pretty are you?

lol, amie

I am not a public figure, but I will wait to apply for the next Big Brother if C4 changes its mind.