Harry's Place

90 years since Austria-Hungary fell? How time flies.

From memory, but was Horthy a part of the deportation of the Jews? I thought that it was done after Germany took over the country.

Exile – not at home.

@Anon first in November 1918 a Hungarian republic was declared, but it was taken over by communist in spring 1919 who ruled Hungary just a few month. It is true that big scale deportation of Jews from Hungary
started only after German occupation. But it was Horthy-Administration which has given the orders to mark, concentrate and rob about half a million Jews before they were sent in cattle-trucks to Auschwitz-Birkenau driven by the Hungarian Gendarms and Hungarian police.
So yes Horthy and his ilk were responsible for this. And they were already in 1941 responsible for the deportation of about 20.000 Jews, to Kamenets-Podolsk in Galicia where the Waffen SS committed a massacre.

Ah the: “kingdom without a king, ruled by an admiral without a fleet, in a country without a coastline” as Hungarians joked about Horthy. Here are two lessons I think:

1) Conservatives make good alliance partners for mature fascist regimes. (and mature fascist regimes prefer alliances with soft(er)-nationalist conservatives than with other fascist regimes – which is common sense really as why compete with others who think they are even more “superior” than you?

2) The history of Hungary and such countries needs to be agreed upon before scenes like those described above become common. When people suggest that the laws against holocaust denial etc in Germany and Austria should be lifted I always find myself thinking about this sort of thing. Terrible to admit it but a few “historians” jailed looks to me a small price to pay to avoid history repeating itself.

I expect John P to show up shortly to explain how Admiral Horthy was the Savior of Hungary from the Godless Communists just as Generalissmo Franco with his Muslim troops was the Savior of White Christian Spain. (Sarcasm)

I had not known that Horthy & Co. were that involved in deporting Jews to the Death Camps, thanks for the grim information. Horthy was the first one to pass laws descriminating against Jews back in the 1920s when Hitler was still a street demagouge in Munich.

Very frightening rhetoric from Jobbik. These SOBs have to be taken seriously.

David All,
some rightwing historians and journalist do the utmost to falsify history and accuse the arrowcross (Hungarian nazi who came to power on October 15, 1944, when Horthy tried clumsily enough to get a separate peace) to be with the Germans guilty of the mass murder of half a million Jewish Hungarians.
And yes, the first law in Europe to restrict severly the possibility to study of Jewish students was passed in 1920 when every Hungarian party except the Sozialdemocrats wanted to solve the “Jewish Question” and catholic bishop Ottokár Prohászka demanded the same, in a brochure published in Hamburg bei Deutschvölkischer Verlag.

To avoid misunderstanding the arrowcross criminals killed a lot of Jews, but they could not deport them to Auschwitz-Birkenau because at the time they ruled, the Red Army was advancing quickly.
to make it very clear. The deportation of half a million Hungarian Jews was perpetrated by the Horthy administration, his Gendarms and Policemen in spring 1944 within six weeks.

@Graham

When people suggest that the laws against holocaust denial etc in Germany and Austria should be lifted I always find myself thinking about this sort of thing. Terrible to admit it but a few “historians” jailed looks to me a small price to pay to avoid history repeating itself.

It is far from clear whether putting historians in jail will not INCREASE the likelihood of history repeating itself, particularly if people see it as one law for Jews and another for other genocided peoples.

It is far from clear whether putting historians in jail will not INCREASE the likelihood of history repeating itself, particularly if people see it as one law for Jews and another for other genocided peoples.

Hmmm. When was the last time you saw a Nazi demo of this size and intensity in Germany?

Thanks, Karl Pfeifer.

Under Miklos Horthy’s rule more than 800,000 Jews from all over Eastern Europe FOUND SHELTER in Hungary from deportation. Slovakia’s Tiso, Romania’s Antonescu and Croatia’s Pavelic started to deport Jews from day one after they seized control of their respective country. Horthy and Hitler had many fights over the deportation of Jews from Hungary and Horthy resisted and even attempted to get Hungary out of the war, but he finally was forcefully ousted by the Germans. Get your facts straight, learn history and stop spreading lies. Thank you.

The Hungarian Guard is NOT a paramilitary group. You need to stop your lies.

@Roamerw1970 you falsify history. a few thousands Jews found refuge
if you write 800.000 then please give us your source.
. But in 1941 about 20.000 Jews, many of them Hungarians who could not prove their citizenship were deported to Kamenets-Podolsk and massacred by Waffen SS.
Horthy resisted? When his administration gave order to mark, to concentrate and to rob the Jews and the csendörség, the Gendarmerie and Police pushed the unfortunate Jewish Hungarians into the cattle-truck?
Yes Horthy made a clumsy attempt on October 15, 1944 to have separate peace and then came the rule of the arrow cross. Now the neo-arrow-cross rabble is marching in the streets of Budapest.
So do not write brazen lies on this website. And Roamer do not call me lier. Of course the Hungarian Guard is paramilitary. I was forced to march in paramilitary Levente, and we had no weapons. So if you march in military formation and wear uníforms, then it you are in a paramilitary formation..
@Fatloser David Irving is no historian. “The truth is, that he is not an historian at all but a falsifier of history. To put it bluntly, he is a liar.”
The British Judge Gray has explained why Irving is not an objective historian and “Irving is anti-semitic. His words are directed against Jews, either individually or collectively, in the sense that they are by turns hostile, critical, offensive and derisory in their references to semitic people, their characteristics and appearances.”

I am sorry I wrote above in a great hurry. There should be no question mark after my writing that Horthy administration is responsible for the marking, concentrating, robbing and deporting about half a million of Jewish Hungarian. It is a fact, even if some “revisionists” like @Roamerw1970@ try to deny this.

Karl

The photos in your links chill the blood to absolute Zero.

Fortunately from what I can tell Gay pride attracted a larger crowd fo happy people not those scowling misfit military morons.